Charging system

[dlaing]

Next, the Widder vest and gloves were connected, temperature control bypassed to draw maximum power, and volts versus RPM measured:

 

RPM Volts Alternator Amps per manual

1300 12.85 15

1500 13.15 16.5

2400+ 13.84 22.0

Which Voltage Regulator do you have.

I suppose docc and others could upgrade.

When I went to the Electrex regulator, the low RPM voltage was much better, but I lost some high RPM voltage, which makes it a little tougher to recharge the battery from the bike alone. My bike regularly sits for a week without riding, so a quick connect charger has been necessary to keep it above 80% charged.

Maybe one of the regulators that Greg mentioned would be a good upgrade. Whatever Ryland has seems to work well.

[Ryland3210]

Wearing light clothing and depending on a heated vest is a potential risk, as you say, but nothing stops one from using the heated vest AND winter insulation. A temperature controller can be used to reduce the power consumption to what is needed to stay warm.

 

The wind chill factor standing still waiting for help is less than riding a motorcycle, to say the least. Riding + heated vest + insulated clothing = standing still + insulated clothing.

 

Weather is different in Southern California from the frosty north. It was below freezing this morning at my house, and it's only mid-October.

 

I took the following data earlier today on current draw and voltage versus RPM with Widder vest and gloves connected on my '04 Cafe Sport, standard lights and accessories.

 

Amps at 12.4 volts, engine off:

4.7 Pump, coils and injectors (rose to 5.05 at high RPM)

4.68 Headlight (high beam), stop and tail lights

0.42 Ignition switch

.063-.189 ECU

1.44 Parking lights

 

11.44 Total Bike Load, assuming ECU at 0.2 amps.

 

4.86 Widder vest and gloves (62.3 watts at 12.6 volts, 77 watts at 14 volts)

 

16.3 Grand total.

 

Next, the Widder vest and gloves were connected, temperature control bypassed to draw maximum power, and volts versus RPM measured:

 

RPM Volts Alternator Amps per manual

1300 12.85 15

1500 13.15 16.5

2400+ 13.84 22.0

 

The alternator output specified by the manual correlates quite well with the 13.15 volt output at 1500 RPM and the 16.3 amp load.

 

My conclusion is that unless I spend a long time at 1100 RPM idle, there is no risk of discharging the battery under reasonable driving conditions, even with the gloves and vest on full power. I see no need to keep the rev's any higher than 1500 when cruising (except it's more tractable at higher revs anyway). The alternator appears to be able to handle the entire load without help from the battery at anything of 1300 or above. At 2400 RPM, there is a reserve capacity of 5.7 amps for accessory equipment. At 12.6 volts, that's 72 watts reserve. Maybe I'll get some heated socks. Now keep in mind that these measurements are on one bike. Some margin for bike to bike variation and clothing drawing more power should be made, and note that alternator output drops fast below 1300 RPM.

 

More info.:

My manual says the alternator output is 330 watts.

The regulator is the black one, which Greg Field referred to as the "much larger" Ducati unit.

 

I rode about 200 miles today in cold weather with the Widder vest and gloves on. On the country roads we rode on, RPM's stayed between 2 and 3 thousand 99% of the time, except when idling. There were quite a few stop sighns along the way. I made no effort to keep the revs high. The bike idles at 1100-1200 RPM. Before starting the trip, battery voltage was at 12.42. Afterwards, after draining off the surface charge, the voltage was 12.63. This recharging of the battery is consistent with the measurements taken above, which showed there was plenty of reserve power available at 1500+ RPM.

[Ryland3210]

Looks like, in terms of wattage the system uses around 150 watts with around 300 available in typical cruise ranges.

 

You cruise at "1500?"

 

If you take my current measurements at 12.4 volts, and assume it is proportional with voltage as a conservative case, you get 152.3 watts at 12.85 volts. Using the same logic, at 13.84 volts, it would rise to 176.7 watts. But the current for lamps, coils, and fuel pump is actually not going to rise proportionally with voltage. At 2400 RPM, the manual says the alternator is good for 22 amps, so at the 13.84 measured there, it comes out to 304.7 watts. Therefore, at 2400 RPM the reserve conservatively computes to 128 watts.

 

Hey docc, thanks for being polite. I'm not so geriatric that I cruise at 1500 RPM. I'm riding a Cafe Sport, not a Harley geezer glide! Today's ride happened to be a good test for 2-3,000 RPM cruising. On Northern New Jersey's country roads, the range of speeds is 35 to 50 MPH. They wander through small villages dating back to the 1700"s, and meander along roads built orignally for horses and wagons. I think I only got over 60 once for about one mile out of 200. On the way up to a MGNOC rally in Massachusetts, I had fun blasting along at 95 for a good 20 miles along one stretch. The Cafe Sport seemed to love the exercise.

[Ryland3210]

I think just about everything has been patented <_>

But when I become dictator of the Universe, I will outlaw patents so that good ideas are actualized

Here is a diagram for a similar idea:

http://www.discovercircuits.com/DJ-Circuit...tchargeind1.htm

It could be modified to light up more LEDs as the current increased, or it could be modified to turn off the vest and gloves when the current flowing into the battery approached zero.

 

Maybe an electric vest is a good idea because you don't have to pull over to strip off layers, you just turn the adjuster knob

 

A few comments on patents:

 

One of the famous quotations was made by an official in the patent office, in I think around 1880. He said words to the effect that every invention had been created, and there was nothing left to invent.

 

Ammeters have been installed in automobiles since the beginning. My 1970 Norton had one.

 

The patent system was introduced in the U.S. specifically because good ideas were being keep secret by their inventors and used only by themselves to retain a competitive advantage. Great ideas would die secretly along with their inventors. Patents provide a temporary monopoly on an invention in exchange for disclosing the invention and teaching the public how to duplicate them. Once the patent expires, the inventor has no further rights to his invention. By the time that happens, if competitors haven't already found a way to work around the patent, they certainly know how to copy it.

 

Some of the first patents were on the McCormick reaper, Eli Witney's cotton gin, and other inventions which resulted in enormous increases in food production to name just one area. Others are electric motors, generators, light bulbs, the list goes on and on.

 

Patent protection is of incalculable value to the production of technological improvements. Without it, many an inventor with a revolutionary idea would never bring it to market, just to be blown away in the market by financially strong copycats. It still happens, but at least the little guy has a chance to win in court.

[dlaing]

I have nothing against inventions and protecting investment in R&D, up to a point.

But patent law has become absurd, and it often hinders development of fine products.

Here is piece on the cotton gin:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cotton_gin

Apparently others had the idea, too.

And enforcing patent protection was not an easy task.

Imagine how much more profitable cotton would have been without paying the lawyers, court costs, etc.

Did patents fuel the industrial revolution or did patents hinder healthy product development and reserve the profits of the revolution to the ones with the best lawyers?

I don't know, but I imagine it is a bit of both.

One of the happiest days of my life was when the RSA encryption patent US4405829 expired

[tmcafe]

More info.:

My manual says the alternator output is 330 watts.

The regulator is the black one, which Greg Field referred to as the "much larger" Ducati unit.

 

I rode about 200 miles today in cold weather with the Widder vest and gloves on. On the country roads we rode on, RPM's stayed between 2 and 3 thousand 99% of the time, except when idling. There were quite a few stop sighns along the way. I made no effort to keep the revs high. The bike idles at 1100-1200 RPM. Before starting the trip, battery voltage was at 12.42. Afterwards, after draining off the surface charge, the voltage was 12.63. This recharging of the battery is consistent with the measurements taken above, which showed there was plenty of reserve power available at 1500+ RPM.

Thanks to Ryland and the contributors to this thread. I've been out to warmer places for some days, yet the issue of heated gear is important for those of who may ride for hours in temps below freezing. A few questions/comments:

 

1. Are those 330 watts the actual power of the alternator measured by you? (my owner's and shop manual state 350w at 5,000 rpm)

 

2. Where/what page does the shop manual mention how much power the alternator makes at different revs?

 

3. From Ryland's post, it results that at most rpm's the bike can take the vest and gloves. In this case, the issue starts looking better, since the chill factor is related not only to outside temperature, but also to speed. If one rides at city traffic speeds, there's hardly any need for heated gear even in very cold weather. The need arises with cold AND speed. But speed may also be to revs. If one chooses to ride in the next lower gear, the revs seem to be plenty for gloves and vest.

 

4. As far as the heated socks, has anybody ever tried the BMW battery-powered heated insoles? I haven't but I'm curious. The battery can be recharged, and the insoles can be cut to size.

 

Warnung: S

[docc]

The charts are on the last page of section P.

[Alex-Corsa]

Well , Why not carry en extra battery in a back sack or somewhere...... get really wired you know..... That would solve all the hassle and wondering.

[Greg Field]

Ryland:

 

The Cafe Sport would have the smallish Nippon-Denso reg/rect. The Breva 750, Nevada IE, and Cal Vintage had the larger, black-ish Ducati reg./rect.

[Ryland3210]

Ryland:

 

The Cafe Sport would have the smallish Nippon-Denso reg/rect. The Breva 750, Nevada IE, and Cal Vintage had the larger, black-ish Ducati reg./rect.

 

That could account for the 330 watt output specified in my Cafe Sport manual versus the 350 in the Shop Manual. My regulator looks pretty close to black, certainly not silver. So is the regulator on my bike less reliable than the Ducati type?

[Ryland3210]

Thanks to Ryland and the contributors to this thread. I've been out to warmer places for some days, yet the issue of heated gear is important for those of who may ride for hours in temps below freezing. A few questions/comments:

 

1. Are those 330 watts the actual power of the alternator measured by you? (my owner's and shop manual state 350w at 5,000 rpm) My manual shows 330. I measured slightly less than that at 3,000 RPM, which is normal.

 

2. Where/what page does the shop manual mention how much power the alternator makes at different revs? Section P, page 34.

 

3. From Ryland's post, it results that at most rpm's the bike can take the vest and gloves. In this case, the issue starts looking better, since the chill factor is related not only to outside temperature, but also to speed. If one rides at city traffic speeds, there's hardly any need for heated gear even in very cold weather. The need arises with cold AND speed. But speed may also be to revs. If one chooses to ride in the next lower gear, the revs seem to be plenty for gloves and vest.

 

4. As far as the heated socks, has anybody ever tried the BMW battery-powered heated insoles? I haven't but I'm curious. The battery can be recharged, and the insoles can be cut to size.

 

Warnung: S

[tmcafe]

Thanks!

 

1. Are those 330 watts the actual power of the alternator measured by you? (my owner's and shop manual state 350w at 5,000 rpm) My manual shows 330. Hmm, strange, I wonder what's different: manuals, bikes, or both?

 

2. Where/what page does the shop manual mention how much power the alternator makes at different revs? Section P, page 34. I'll look up.

[Ryland3210]

Thanks!

 

1. Are those 330 watts the actual power of the alternator measured by you? (my owner's and shop manual state 350w at 5,000 rpm) My manual shows 330. Hmm, strange, I wonder what's different: manuals, bikes, or both?

 

2. Where/what page does the shop manual mention how much power the alternator makes at different revs? Section P, page 34. I'll look up.

 

The difference could be in the regulator as well. There is also an update for the workshop manual which covers my bike. In section R, it disagrees with the operator's manual, specifying 350W, 14 volts at 25 amps at 5000 RPM.

[Bbennett]

I have a V11 Sport and suffer from battery drain due to a Gerbing vest. I have an Oddesey battery.

 

I drive typically at 3-4500 RPM. Ok, maybe a little higher. This is town driving.

 

My solution is a trickle charger at night and avoiding turning off the engine at any cost during a winter ride. If you do stop the engine, it needs to be at the top of a hill....

 

Bob

[Greg Field]

Ryland:

 

I have never heard of a failed ND reg/rect on a V11. I abused the hell out of mine this summer on the Alaska trip, and it still works perfectly.

 

Bob: Odysseys sometimes will take a "set" when used long-term with a trickle charger. Discharge it fairly well and then whack it with a 6- to 10-amp rate for an hour. That often resotres their full cranking power. If you do not have one of these chargers, drop the battery at the shop and I can whack it.