Charging system

[Ryland3210]

Ry,

 

This is true. There is no spec for what the bike draws to live. I pulled that number from a prior thread ("Battery Leaks", I believe; a great thread due to the contributions of GARY CHEEK). I would still like to know what the normal current draw is for a running V11. It may vary for the later model fuel pump, I dunno.

 

Hi docc,

 

It was easy to figure on my Venture, because the service manual gave the power consumption of every component on the bike, so I could simply add it all up. The issue with checking to see if the voltage is at anything below 13 volts, it is difficult to know whether the battery is absorbing current or pumping it out.

 

An accurate way would be to connect a low resistance ammeter between the battery and the loads to measure the current draw and the voltage at the same time. Multiplying volts times amps equals watts.

 

I have a way to measure the power drawn by my Widders, and can also see at what RPM the alternator can keep the battery charged with them connected, and everything else turned on. Hopefully, I'll be able to get to that over the weekend.

[Guest Phil_P]

I have converted whatever I could to LED lights. I found a LED-capable flasher unit to replace the OEM unit that requires more current draw than LED's provide to trigger the flashing. Also, replacing either the front OR rear signal light bulbs with LED's but leaving the other pair as incandescent will provide sufficient current for the OEM flasher.

 

Yup, found that trick of only replacing either front or rear indicator. I want to build a low current flasher unit to drive LED bulbs as I've now switched to some tiny 'micro' indicators rather than the huge standard ones and want to put LED's in all of those.

 

 

I replaced all of the ennunciator (idiot) lights with LED units but discovered that you cannot replace the signal light ennunciator with a LED. I don't understand how, really, but that circuit reverses polarity when changing from left to right, so with LEDs you will only get the ennuciation one way OR the other but not both.

 

Just had a good look at the wiring diagram and the indicator warning light has supply from one indicator connected to each terminal, and when in use grounds through the other indicator bulb. Polarity is thus reversed depending on which side in use. A bit of clever modification of a LED bulb so that you have one LED wired for each polarity might be the answer. Will have to think about that.

 

All of the M/G light bulb's LED replacements are available here http://www.autolumination.com/

 

Nice source

 

Be careful buying a HID replacement for the V-11 headlight. The nacelle is shallow and many of the H4 bulb's element actuation unit makes the HID bulb too deep for the nacelle.

 

Agreed, although this is more of a problem if you are using one of the 'bi-xenon' types that use a solenoid actuator to move parts back and forward. With HID bulbs you do eliminate the normal headlight plug which gives you a little more space to play with. DO check the space you have available. If anyone wants a measure of how much space you require at the back of a non-solenoid type HID bulb then I will whip the fairing off Baby and measure up for you.

[Greg Field]

Those charts are posted on the forum somewhere. I don't recall any change to the alternator over the year ranges. Certainly the voltages and charging behavior are consistent with the lower output shown in the printed manual's charts.

 

They've used at least three different regulators over the years. First, the silver Ducati. Second, the dark gray Nippon-Denso. Now the black and much larger Ducati. The last of these seems not to fail and costs abut half what the others cost. Connector changes required to us it with the earlier versions of the alternator, and you lose function of the charge light.

[BrianG]

Agreed, although this is more of a problem if you are using one of the 'bi-xenon' types that use a solenoid actuator to move parts back and forward. With HID bulbs you do eliminate the normal headlight plug which gives you a little more space to play with. DO check the space you have available. If anyone wants a measure of how much space you require at the back of a non-solenoid type HID bulb then I will whip the fairing off Baby and measure up for you.

Does this mean that you have sacrificed one of the hi/lo functions with this type of bulb?

[dlaing]

All of the M/G light bulb's LED replacements are available here http://www.autolumination.com/

 

Be careful buying a HID replacement for the V-11 headlight. The nacelle is shallow and many of the H4 bulb's element actuation unit makes the HID bulb too deep for the nacelle.

What model number bulbs are used in the instrument panel?

What is a Nacelle? The shell or the reflector?

[dlaing]

("Battery Leaks", I believe; a great thread due to the contributions of GARY CHEEK).

I believe it was a great thread due to the contributions of Ryland3210 and dlaing , although Gary Cheek's valuable contributions helped too.

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=7545

The thread had more to do with charging than leaking....

[dlaing]

Regarding heated vests, IMHO I think they are a bad idea.

If you are riding and have engine trouble or crash and are stranded wearing only your Summer ATGATT and the electric vest, chances are you are going to be very cold waiting for the tow truck or ambulance.

The bulk of a thick vest will not inhibit your riding and it is extra protection if you crash.

Electic Gloves are a different story. Being able to feel the controls is IMPORTANT.

[Guest Phil_P]

Does this mean that you have sacrificed one of the hi/lo functions with this type of bulb?

 

The type of bulb I have fitted has a conventional halogen bulb for dip beam and a HID xenon bulb for main. In retrospect I would probably have bought a set up with it the other way round and then wired it so the dip is on permanently even when switched to main. My reasoning for this is that there is a fraction of a second delay for a HID light to come up to full intensity, and this can be slightly un-nerving when you flick to main. Once the HID has been fired up once then the delay gets shorter, so going back and forwards between dip and main, as you might with light traffic going the other way the delay is pretty much non existent. I would also surmise that with a HID dip you would only very rarely have to use main at all. Of course the solenoid 'bi-xenon' light obviates this problem by keeping a single 'filament' permanently lit, the downside of which is that if that in the event of a single failure you are left with no light at all, a situation I'm not too keen on.

[Ryland3210]

Regarding heated vests, IMHO I think they are a bad idea.

If you are riding and have engine trouble or crash and are stranded wearing only your Summer ATGATT and the electric vest, chances are you are going to be very cold waiting for the tow truck or ambulance.

The bulk of a thick vest will not inhibit your riding and it is extra protection if you crash.

Electic Gloves are a different story. Being able to feel the controls is IMPORTANT.

 

Wearing light clothing and depending on a heated vest is a potential risk, as you say, but nothing stops one from using the heated vest AND winter insulation. A temperature controller can be used to reduce the power consumption to what is needed to stay warm.

 

The wind chill factor standing still waiting for help is less than riding a motorcycle, to say the least. Riding + heated vest + insulated clothing = standing still + insulated clothing.

 

Weather is different in Southern California from the frosty north. It was below freezing this morning at my house, and it's only mid-October.

 

I took the following data earlier today on current draw and voltage versus RPM with Widder vest and gloves connected on my '04 Cafe Sport, standard lights and accessories.

 

Amps at 12.4 volts, engine off:

4.7 Pump, coils and injectors (rose to 5.05 at high RPM)

4.68 Headlight (high beam), stop and tail lights

0.42 Ignition switch

.063-.189 ECU

1.44 Parking lights

 

11.44 Total Bike Load, assuming ECU at 0.2 amps.

 

4.86 Widder vest and gloves (62.3 watts at 12.6 volts, 77 watts at 14 volts)

 

16.3 Grand total.

 

Next, the Widder vest and gloves were connected, temperature control bypassed to draw maximum power, and volts versus RPM measured:

 

RPM Volts Alternator Amps per manual

1300 12.85 15

1500 13.15 16.5

2400+ 13.84 22.0

 

The alternator output specified by the manual correlates quite well with the 13.15 volt output at 1500 RPM and the 16.3 amp load.

 

My conclusion is that unless I spend a long time at 1100 RPM idle, there is no risk of discharging the battery under reasonable driving conditions, even with the gloves and vest on full power. I see no need to keep the rev's any higher than 1500 when cruising (except it's more tractable at higher revs anyway). The alternator appears to be able to handle the entire load without help from the battery at anything of 1300 or above. At 2400 RPM, there is a reserve capacity of 5.7 amps for accessory equipment. At 12.6 volts, that's 72 watts reserve. Maybe I'll get some heated socks. Now keep in mind that these measurements are on one bike. Some margin for bike to bike variation and clothing drawing more power should be made, and note that alternator output drops fast below 1300 RPM.

[Troy]

Wouldn't it be neat to have a meter on the dash to indicate current to or from the battery. The meter could read zero at the center for no current, (-)Amperes to the left and (+)Amperes to the right. You'd know if you're using more current than the alternator produces. You'd also know if the alternator is working harder to replenish excessive battery drain resulting from a long cranking episode.

 

Do you guys think I could patent this idea?

[dlaing]

Wouldn't it be neat to have a meter on the dash to indicate current to or from the battery. The meter could read zero at the center for no current, (-)Amperes to the left and (+)Amperes to the right. You'd know if you're using more current than the alternator produces. You'd also know if the alternator is working harder to replenish excessive battery drain resulting from a long cranking episode.

 

Do you guys think I could patent this idea?

I think just about everything has been patented <_>

But when I become dictator of the Universe, I will outlaw patents so that good ideas are actualized

Here is a diagram for a similar idea:

http://www.discovercircuits.com/DJ-Circuit...tchargeind1.htm

It could be modified to light up more LEDs as the current increased, or it could be modified to turn off the vest and gloves when the current flowing into the battery approached zero.

 

Maybe an electric vest is a good idea because you don't have to pull over to strip off layers, you just turn the adjuster knob

[BrianG]

What model number bulbs are used in the instrument panel?

What is a Nacelle? The shell or the reflector?

 

#74 bulb type is the instrument panel ennunciator light (LED). I tried their Tri-power and their standard single LED unit. No notable difference.

 

 

Their "white" color is a bit strange in that with them the "N" and well as the hi-beam are now both blue......

 

Nacelle is the shell.......

[dlaing]

#74 bulb type is the instrument panel ennunciator light (LED). I tried their Tri-power and their standard single LED unit. No notable difference.

Their "white" color is a bit strange in that with them the "N" and well as the hi-beam are now both blue......

 

Nacelle is the shell.......

Thanks!

If anyone tried a bi-xeon H4 and it fit, I'd like to hear which brand you chose.

Also, any good ideas on ballast mounting placement?

Prices have really dropped on the HID

[Guest Phil_P]

Thanks!

If anyone tried a bi-xeon H4 and it fit, I'd like to hear which brand you chose.

Also, any good ideas on ballast mounting placement?

Prices have really dropped on the HID

 

With a bi-xenon type you will almost certainly have a second control box, similar in size to the HID driver, that controls the solenoid action. With a 1100 Sporti it was no problem mounting the box in the fairing. The box is about the size of a packet of cigarettes. Under your tank is a likely candidate, or perhaps under the bottom yoke.

 

I have actually ordered a pair of bulbs with HID dip and halogen main, and will rewire the control gear to suit (just involves swapping two terminals in the main connector between bike and ballast).

 

Was on a daytime ride out with a crowd of Guzzisti last Sunday with H/L on, and it was commented how bright it is. I reckon if you ride at night, this is possibly the best performance upgrade you can make.

[docc]

I took the following data earlier today on current draw and voltage versus RPM with Widder vest and gloves connected on my '04 Cafe Sport, standard lights and accessories.

 

11.44 Total Bike Load, assuming ECU at 0.2 amps.

 

 

My conclusion is that unless I spend a long time at 1100 RPM idle, there is no risk of discharging the battery under reasonable driving conditions, even with the gloves and vest on full power. I see no need to keep the rev's any higher than 1500 when cruising (except it's more tractable at higher revs anyway). The alternator appears to be able to handle the entire load without help from the battery at anything of 1300 or above. At 2400 RPM, there is a reserve capacity of 5.7 amps for accessory equipment. At 12.6 volts, that's 72 watts reserve. Maybe I'll get some heated socks. Now keep in mind that these measurements are on one bike. Some margin for bike to bike variation and clothing drawing more power should be made, and note that alternator output drops fast below 1300 RPM.

 

Looks like, in terms of wattage the system uses around 150 watts with around 300 available in typical cruise ranges.

 

You cruise at "1500?"