mpg ?

[Skeeve]

I rode like a little old lady from Pasadina. That was a first and likely a last because I drive much more aggresively normaly.

 

Obviously, you've never actually listened to the lyrics of The Little Old Lady from Pasadena!

 

My mom used to drive like that, before she stopped driving due to Parkinson's. Never had a Super Stock Dodge in her garage, but she used to really hustle thru traffic in her old Rambler wagon!

 

Upshot is, you normally ride less aggressively than the LOLFP! ;D

 

Ride on!

[tmcafe]

This thread is rubbing it in for me. I asked a tech at Moto Int'l, who warned me that very short trips on a cold engine may give something like 25 mpg Basically the ECU reads "cold engine" no matter what and gives it a lot of fuel accordingly. So I calculated at the next fill-up. Sadly, he was dead-on! It wasn't even 26 mpg!

 

Since my mpg is at the other end of the scale vs. Kevin H's, here's more info:

 

- my trips home to work are about 2 miles each way (that sucks).

- I try to keep it around 3000 rpm (actually I like the way the bike purrs around those revs).

- average city altitude is fairly high: under 3000 ft but by not much

- mileage on bike: a little over 1k

- everything on bike is stock (except for me )

- first oil change 10W40 Valvo m/c

- tranny 80W90 Lucas

- rear drive 80W90 Lucas and Kawi (run out) + PowerPunch

- Chevron middle grade (89 I guess)

- 175 lb, 6'1"

- don't carry extra (a shoulder bag)

- tires about 34/36 front 38/40 rear

- speeds around 35-45 in town

- weather was cold recently, often in the 20s early morn. and night

 

It's not the cost that worries me about the bike's gas mileage. Even if the gas was free, I'd still feel just as bad. In my book, the bike (bikes in general) is the coolest motor vehicle on the road in most/all respects, including that they're the opposite of fat-a$ gas guzzlers. And now this.... 25 mpg... even Hardly's do much better. And the portly Breva too... not to mention many of the Ducs. And Beems. Looks like with this bike Italian style seems to ignore the gas mileage issue.

 

Maybe Kevin has a magic spell for his bike... Seriously, the tech at Moto Int'l also told me that I could get a PC and have the FI mapping redone for this bike at a dyno shop. Perhaps not right now, maybe later. How about exhaust cans? Do the Ti offer any advantage, other than looks and a few pounds shed? (and are they louder, btw?). Spark plugs have been checked too. Valves soon.

[Dan M]

My light comes/goes/glows over about a 10 mile span before staying on and shining brightly. I've seen it come on at as low as 120 miles, but more often closer to 160 miles from full. Always takes a little over 4 gallons to fill. So, the average for me is high 30s but it certainly varies with my wrist action.

[raz]

- mileage on bike: a little over 1k

An '04 with one thousand miles? At least you could hope it will get much better when it's broken in. But with this pace that will happen about 2050

[Cliff]

- my trips home to work are about 2 miles each way (that sucks).

-

 

I think you're suffering from inappropriateness. I don't think many big bikes will get good milage on such a trip. Even if there was no traffic or lights on the run. Perhaps an electric scooter.

[tmcafe]

An '04 with one thousand miles? At least you could hope it will get much better when it's broken in. But with this pace that will happen about 2050

I think you're suffering from inappropriateness. I don't think many big bikes will get good milage on such a trip. Even if there was no traffic or lights on the run. Perhaps an electric scooter.

Sure wouldn't mind waiting to 2050 to break it in, especially if I stay as young as I am now. Okay, I got the bike brand new just two months ago. First ride about 700 miles in one stretch (with stops for refueling). Then speedo cable needed replaced under warranty, wanted to service it and didn't want to put miles on it since both odos were frozen. And then, you guys in Sydney, remember, here in the civilized northern hemisphere there's something called winter--you know: ice, snow, long cold nights. Seriously, I used to walk to work, but I like this bike too much to leave it home. Occasionally I've blasted on the highway or went up on some twisties (until I saw ice in the middle of the road at about 4-5k ft. Revved the crap out of it, even pushing it to redline, and to about 110-120 on the interstate, and the gas mileage still was still better than the dreaded city run. But I suspect there may be a few more tweaks that can help.

 

Ooops, just noticed I misspelled Sydney. Fixed! (I hate bad spelling, esp. names of people and places)

[Cliff]

Your simplest solution would be to substitute the engine temperature sensor with a potentiometer (gives some adjustablility). The sensor is just like a resistor to ground.

 

There's a temperature table here http://www.cajinnovations.com/MyECU/temperature.htm.

 

I'd say 1k pot would give you the adjustment you want. Put it in with a switch so you can switch between the pot and the original sensor.

 

Can't imagine how you guys get through winter. Winter here is prime riding season. Worse days in summer you need to plan to get back home before its too hot.

[tmcafe]

Your simplest solution would be to substitute the engine temperature sensor with a potentiometer (gives some adjustablility). The sensor is just like a resistor to ground.

 

There's a temperature table here http://www.cajinnovations.com/MyECU/temperature.htm.

 

I'd say 1k pot would give you the adjustment you want. Put it in with a switch so you can switch between the pot and the original sensor.

 

Can't imagine how you guys get through winter. Winter here is prime riding season. Worse days in summer you need to plan to get back home before its too hot.

I've printed the link and saved it--for when (if ) I get smarter with electronics, or when I can show the project to smb. who can help me or make sense of it . Not sure which kind of winter sucks most. Here I can ride most of the time, except for the few days with snow and ice in town (around town is much worse though, it's wintersports area). But still always on alert: will it snow, will the rain turn to ice, blah, blah etc. In other places I guess it's all clear. Unless you're a hero and put on studded tires (assuming they're street legal), you can just enjoy reading motorcycle stories or work on your bike until spring. Like some northern states in the US, most of Canada, Finland, etc. Most of the year it's okay here though, even in the summer--hot and dry, and it cools off at night.

[dlaing]

Gosh, Dave, I have to oblige since you asked so nicely.

 

The motor is stock '02 V11 Le Mans.

Valve settings: IN--.004", EX--tight .008" currently, formerly .006"

TPS baseline setting: 3.7 degrees.

Stock airbox with K&N replacing stock air filter.

Stock headers/crossover, Stucchi Ti mufflers.

Race Ti ECU w/ slightly tweaked map.

I usually run Premium gas, unless no other is available (usually BFE).

TBS are synched at 4K, plugs are NGK BPR6ES, gapped at tight .7 mm, or whatever is spec (forget offhand).

I run full synthetic oils in crankcase, trans, final drive--currently NAPA syn 15W50, Mobil 1 75W90 w/ Power Punch moly in rear end.

I weigh 160 lbs and am 6'0" tall.

Tire air pressure: 33 psi front, 38 psi rear, stock sizes (120/70, 180/55).

Suffice it to say that everything is set very accurately on the bike.

I don't spend a lot of time warming up the bike--only a few minutes, then ride off w/ easy throttle for 5-10 min.

Dunno what else would affect mileage?

Gosh, a thorough answer! Thanks Kevin!!!

The most likely differences from my bike are the Ti ECU and my slightly plumper 215lb +++

My fuel mileage is about 30 MPG on short commutes and 35-37 on longer rides.

Otherwise, how I ride does not seem to make much difference. Maybe one or two MPG difference.

I have seen 42MPG but that was going a pretty steady 70MPH with a 20MPH tail wind.

To compare:

he motor is stock '00 V11 Sport

Valve settings: IN--.006", EX--tight .008" currently.

TPS baseline setting: 3.5-3.6 degrees.(525mV)

Stock airbox with BMC replacing stock air filter and FBF lidless kit

Stock headers/crossover, Mistral mufflers.

Stock ECU w/ TuneBoy overlayed PCIII map (002map(I think?))

I usually run Premium gas, but have experimented with 89 octane, which seems to improve gas mileage a little.

TBS are synched about every 2K, plugs have always been NGK BPR6ES, gapped at whatever is spec (forget offhand,too). But recently switched to Bosch Platinum and noticed no difference.

I run full synthetic oils in crankcase, trans, final drive--currently Repsol 5W50, Redline Shockproof Heavy(tried shockproof light, no difference in MPG)

I weigh 215 lbs plus breakfast, lunch, dinner, and riding gear, and am 6'3" tall, making for a pretty good size wind sail.

Tire air pressure: 34 psi front, 36 psi rear, (120/70, 160/50(makes odometer read high, meaning MPG is even worse than quoted)).

[Skeeve]

This thread is rubbing it in for me. I asked a tech at Moto Int'l, who warned me that very short trips on a cold engine may give something like 25 mpg Basically the ECU reads "cold engine" no matter what and gives it a lot of fuel accordingly. So I calculated at the next fill-up. Sadly, he was dead-on! It wasn't even 26 mpg!

...

It's not the cost that worries me about the bike's gas mileage. Even if the gas was free, I'd still feel just as bad. In my book, the bike (bikes in general) is the coolest motor vehicle on the road in most/all respects, including that they're the opposite of fat-a$ gas guzzlers. And now this.... 25 mpg... even Hardly's do much better. And the portly Breva too... not to mention many of the Ducs. And Beems. Looks like with this bike Italian style seems to ignore the gas mileage issue.

 

Maybe Kevin has a magic spell for his bike... Seriously, the tech at Moto Int'l also told me that I could get a PC and have the FI mapping redone for this bike at a dyno shop. Perhaps not right now, maybe later. How about exhaust cans? Do the Ti offer any advantage, other than looks and a few pounds shed? (and are they louder, btw?). Spark plugs have been checked too. Valves soon.

 

Actually, not much out there is going to do a heck of a lot better on short hop, stop'n'go driving on a cold engine like your situation. Yes, hybrids & EVs will, because this scenario is exactly their forte: accelerate on battery power, regen braking at every stoplight, & by the time you actually get to work, the engine probably still hasn't even had to come on!

 

You can try letting the bike warm up while you're putting on your riding duds & that may help some, but I don't know of any ICE-powered vehicle that gets better than 25mpg in traffic on a cold engine, short of a Vespa...

[tmcafe]

Actually, not much out there is going to do a heck of a lot better on short hop, stop'n'go driving on a cold engine like your situation. Yes, hybrids & EVs will, because this scenario is exactly their forte: accelerate on battery power, regen braking at every stoplight, & by the time you actually get to work, the engine probably still hasn't even had to come on!

 

You can try letting the bike warm up while you're putting on your riding duds & that may help some, but I don't know of any ICE-powered vehicle that gets better than 25mpg in traffic on a cold engine, short of a Vespa...

Okay, this sounds better. I know that much of the crappy mileage has been caused by these short jaunts, but didn't think it was going to be that bad. I got something like mid-to high 30s mpg riding it from Seattle. Still low compared to other bikes just as big. Haven't done the valves yet, and I may go for new (stock) spark plugs. I do let the bike warm up a bit, while I'm putting on my helmet and gloves, etc. Not enough, it seems.

Gosh, a thorough answer! Thanks Kevin!!!

The most likely differences from my bike are the Ti ECU and my slightly plumper 215lb +++

My fuel mileage is about 30 MPG on short commutes and 35-37 on longer rides.

Otherwise, how I ride does not seem to make much difference. Maybe one or two MPG difference.

I have seen 42MPG but that was going a pretty steady 70MPH with a 20MPH tail wind.

To compare:

he motor is stock '00 V11 Sport

Valve settings: IN--.006", EX--tight .008" currently.

TPS baseline setting: 3.5-3.6 degrees.(525mV)

Stock airbox with BMC replacing stock air filter and FBF lidless kit

Stock headers/crossover, Mistral mufflers.

Stock ECU w/ TuneBoy overlayed PCIII map (002map(I think?))

I usually run Premium gas, but have experimented with 89 octane, which seems to improve gas mileage a little.

TBS are synched about every 2K, plugs have always been NGK BPR6ES, gapped at whatever is spec (forget offhand,too). But recently switched to Bosch Platinum and noticed no difference.

I run full synthetic oils in crankcase, trans, final drive--currently Repsol 5W50, Redline Shockproof Heavy(tried shockproof light, no difference in MPG)

I weigh 215 lbs plus breakfast, lunch, dinner, and riding gear, and am 6'3" tall, making for a pretty good size wind sail.

Tire air pressure: 34 psi front, 36 psi rear, (120/70, 160/50(makes odometer read high, meaning MPG is even worse than quoted)).

Now this makes me feel a little better too--sorry dlaing, no offense meant. Your weight and height may actually contribute to lower gas mileage. Also wondering why 89 would do better than premium (I heard the opposite too). Given that some tire mfg's (Metzeler is one of them) suggest that it's better to keep your tires at max allowed cold pressure, you may want to pump up your tires to probably something like 42.

[dlaing]

snip...... Now this makes me feel a little better too--sorry dlaing, no offense meant. Your weight and height may actually contribute to lower gas mileage. Also wondering why 89 would do better than premium (I heard the opposite too). Given that some tire mfg's (Metzeler is one of them) suggest that it's better to keep your tires at max allowed cold pressure, you may want to pump up your tires to probably something like 42.

No offense taken.

Many others have V11s that consume a lot of fuel too.

When I weighed 180lbs, my Honda 125 got 60MPG pretty much however I rode it.

My 500Four and my V65 got about 50MPG.

None of them seemed worse when cold, as they probably warmed up faster, and once the choke was closed they weren't enriching like the fuel injected bikes do.

I was hoping my V11 would average 40+ MPG (US) so it is a little disappointing.

Judging by the number of people that get 40+ gas mileage, I am confident I can re-map the ECU to reach my goal, but I keep procrastinating on getting it done.

Less posting to the forum should give me the time to do it.

But I am grateful for all the advice.

Cliff gives good advice on the sensor signal modification.

Surely a cold bike that is running a little leaner than the factory designed, will warm up faster and could easily get much better than 25MPG for the first two miles.

I have tried various tire pressures and noticed no difference in fuel mileage, but a big difference in handling, so I don't want to sacrifice the handling.

I also wear through tires pretty quickly 3500 - 6000 miles for sport touring tires, but I have heard of people wearing through in 2-3000 miles.

Smooth riders probably get better fuel and tire mileage

[Skeeve]

Also wondering why 89 would do better than premium (I heard the opposite too). Given that some tire mfg's (Metzeler is one of them) suggest that it's better to keep your tires at max allowed cold pressure, you may want to pump up your tires to probably something like 42.

 

Here in CA esp., & anyplace else they have "winter fuel," the octane booster of choice has become alcohol(s), which have fewer kCals per volume ["BTUs/lb" for us hopelessly non-metric types ] than straight gasoline. This is outside of any other considerations like the difference in energy content btw gas & diesel fuel, but lower octane gas has some of that going on too.

 

Moral of the story is: use the lowest octane fuel that your engine can safely use [no pinging, good performance] as paying extra for wasted octane rating does nothing for your engine.

 

In modern cars w/ adaptive timing [knock sensors, oxygen sensors, closed-loop injection,] the ability of the ECU to change the timing to take advantage of higher octane fuels can mean that you'll get enough better fuel mileage on a higher grade of gas to outweigh the price difference. Only driven one car like that myself, where spending the extra $.05/gal for the mid-grade at my favorite station translated to substantial cost savings over time, but of course, it only worked because of the number of highway miles I was driving, range on a tankful & round trips that enabled me to fill up at that particular station...

[Skeeve]

I have tried various tire pressures and noticed no difference in fuel mileage, but a big difference in handling, so I don't want to sacrifice the handling.

I also wear through tires pretty quickly 3500 - 6000 miles for sport touring tires, but I have heard of people wearing through in 2-3000 miles.

Smooth riders probably get better fuel and tire mileage

 

Yes, smooth riders definitely do get better fuel & tire mileage. Rear tire lifetime is a complex function of right wrist activity, all up vehicle wt. & horsepower. Oddly enough, I would expect those who've made Greg's "Swiss cheese" mod to the cush drive wedges to experience significantly enhanced rear tire lifespans, as the movement of driveline hysteresis from being concentrated at the tire/road interface to being more spread out through the cush drive would have very beneficial f/x on the rear tire's ability to maintain traction under stop & go conditions.

 

Put another way: you've said yourself that a significant portion of your riding time is commuter miles: the same rear tire that only lasts 5k in commuter driving will last 8k on tour, because the tire isn't subjected to repetitive speeding up & slowing down cycling, which heats the tire & wears the tread faster.

 

Ride safe!

[Ryland3210]

It's all in the temperature and elevation. On short trips at 25 deg F your bike isn't even warming up yet. It takes a good 10-15 miles of steady riding to warm it up fully. On your short trips, in cold weather, the mileage will be the worst. For a two mile trip, I wouldn't ride the bike. You really aren't doing it any good, as condensation builds up in the engine/oil, then doesn't get hot enough to evaporate. Short trips are the worst. You may want to consider alternative transportation, IMO.

 

If Dave's bike is stored indoors, he could do what I used to when I had to keep my car outside during the cold winters of the 1970's. I opened the hood, draped a blanket over the engine, and put a 60 watt light bulb under the oil pan on a timer set to turn on an hour before I needed to drive the car. It made a remarkable difference.

 

I'll bet that would make a great deal of difference under the sump, even if the bike is outdoors. If indoors, the blanket would probably not be necessary, but it wouldn't hurt, either. Much less wasted fuel or cold running engine. The cost for the electricity used is negligible. Matter of fact, I'm going to resume doing that myself on those cold days I expect to ride. Sorry I didn't think of it earlier.