V11 owner looks longingly at BMW HP2 Sport

[Guzzi_Klaus]

For that amount of money you can expect quality. I don' t think BMW is able to do so.

 

In 2000 a friend of mine bought a R1150 GS 8 one or two years old ) . In 2005 he got some problems with gaskets at the brakes. A problem BMW knows for a long time, but did not make it public.

Repairing this would have been very expensive (kind of 400 €) and BMW showed no goodwill to pay part of the repair. . So my friend decided to let it repair at a non bmw garage. Another decision was never to buy again a BMW .

 

Even some mechanics I know say that what BMW provides is not worth that amount of money you pay .

 

Sometimes it is not easy to understand why they win a lot of comparative test in the german motorcycle magazin. Even deficiencies with the ABS .

 

It looks nice made, but it is so extreme ugly. Does noone see that? Do the carbon bits blind so much? A bike should be like a woman, nice forms you want to close to.

 

Paul You are so right . They are not abe to build nice motorcycles . Earlier in last century they built nice motorcycles (e.g. ( R90 /S) .

 

 

Klaus

[DeBenGuzzi]

I was at my local BMW and others dealer and I saw a shelf of oil filters I asked the guy whats the difference with this one in the plain white box? he said about $20, I was like HOLY crap, he said well its a BMW branded part, exactly the same as the $8 filter under it used on I think it was snomobiles or something I forget the details exactly but I laughed and he said yeah, only a certian few actually buy the BMW stuff for their beemers. I think I got what he meant by that.

[dlaing]

Have you checked bike prices lately?

That bike is right in the league of the Ducati1098 or 1098S for value (not equal for race track).

The MSRP of the 1098 is US $15,995; the 1098 S is priced at $19,995 while the 1098 R is $39,995

What does Guzzi have that compares to that? $26,000 MGS01 that is not even street legal?!? The $15,000 pig heavy Norge!?! The already outdated Griso 1100 at 13,500??? The 1200Sport? The Griso QuatroValvole is getting closer to the same value, but still falls short and it is not available in the US. When it gets here, it will probably be close to $15,000.

What I don't like about the HP2 Sport is the riding postion. Heels inches from ass on hard saddle, and wrists aching from fat geezer's weight bearing down. But for a shorter more athletic rider, it should be fine.

The R1200S is more my fit, and not a bad deal.

I tried to test one at the Cycle Show today but I got there too late to reserve one.

I test rode a Vectrix electric scooter, http://www.vectrix.com/ which was a blast.

It is a hefty $11,000 and only goes 100km/h.

I hope Piaggio's hybrids are less expensive.

[Paul Minnaert]

the only real nice thing about the hp2 is the way how the put the cams in the head, making it smaller then the single cam in head. If guzzi had done that with the griso4v. Now wait if they are going to put that head on lower priced bmw's. It would be to expensive to develop such a head only for the hp2. But only 10 hp gain isn't to much. They still have the problem that the intake bends to much to flow gasses quick in.

[docc]

Sure but now there is the F800 Gs . . .

http://www.motorcycledaily.com/23november0...w2008f800gs.htm

 

I would keep my jealous motorcycle-V11-like-an-Italian-woman who might stab you for no reason, but would want this Bavarian tool-of-a-bike.

[Richard]

Sure but now there is the F800 Gs . . .

http://www.motorcycledaily.com/23november0...w2008f800gs.htm

 

I would keep my jealous motorcycle-V11-like-an-Italian-woman who might stab you for no reason, but would want this Bavarian tool-of-a-bike.

Ugly front end, though...

[docc]

Ugly front end, though...

True. Ugly like a Rottweiler, though. Purposeful, I think, for the task.

 

Every time they try to make these bikes look pretty it's like putting make-up on the Rottweiler. It looks silly and pi$$e$ off the dog.

[dlaing]

the only real nice thing about the hp2 is the way how the put the cams in the head, making it smaller then the single cam in head. If guzzi had done that with the griso4v. Now wait if they are going to put that head on lower priced bmw's. It would be to expensive to develop such a head only for the hp2. But only 10 hp gain isn't to much. They still have the problem that the intake bends to much to flow gasses quick in.

Maybe I am wrong, but I foresee cam chain problems

What do you think? Is it OK to make the chain take a bend like that?

[Skeeve]

Maybe I am wrong, but I foresee cam chain problems

What do you think? Is it OK to make the chain take a bend like that?

 

Not having seen a picture of the cam chain or how it bends, I'd just like to point out: it depends! How much power is being transmitted via the chain, and how sharp is the bend? Typically, any chain sprocket w/

 

If BMW figures that the HP2 cam chain can survive the tight bends in its path longer than the new "explodo-Matic" final drives they've been making, then who cares if it goes south shortly after the bike comes in for the 50,000 mile final drive replacement? Just put in a new cam chain as a "required" part of the final drive service!

[dlaing]

Not having seen a picture of the cam chain or how it bends, snip

Huh?

Do you not see the picture?

Here is the link:

http://www.webbikeworld.com/BMW-motorcycle...linder-head.jpg

The bend that bothers me is through the chain tensioner.

[Skeeve]

Huh?

Do you not see the picture?

Here is the link:

http://www.webbikeworld.com/BMW-motorcycle...linder-head.jpg

The bend that bothers me is through the chain tensioner.

 

Well, the tightest bend is around the upper camshaft sprocket, & yes, it's only an artist's impression, but counting teeth gives 5 about 1/4 section, so that would be a 20-tooth sprocket, so no worries.

 

Moto Guzzi's new 4v uses a Hy-Vo chain, which is a better solution in terms of longevity than the bicycle chain BMW is using to drive their cams, but the Guzzi QV is a rehash of the Hi-Cam short pushrod design, instead of BMW's ohc setup, so ultimately, BMW can spin their motor faster than Guzzi can before hitting valve float, ceteris parabus.

 

In the long run, we're all dead anyway. In the short run, I'd rather be seen riding a Goose than a Bimmer*.

 

* - [unless it's a choice between being seen on a Centauro** vs. the HPS, then I'd go for the Bimmer!]

** - [Which I'm already down on record as considering one of the ugliest production motorcycles in modern times, only being edged out for the title by the ??? Mantis (another Marabese screw up from the same period) and Philip Starke's (sp) 'priller Moto 6.5. What was it about the late '90s that so many hideously ugly designs were being given the green light?]

 

Ride on!

[dlaing]

Well, the tightest bend is around the upper camshaft sprocket, & yes, it's only an artist's impression, but counting teeth gives 5 about 1/4 section, so that would be a 20-tooth sprocket, so no worries.

 

Moto Guzzi's new 4v uses a Hy-Vo chain, which is a better solution in terms of longevity than the bicycle chain BMW is using to drive their cams, but the Guzzi QV is a rehash of the Hi-Cam short pushrod design, instead of BMW's ohc setup, so ultimately, BMW can spin their motor faster than Guzzi can before hitting valve float, ceteris parabus.

 

In the long run, we're all dead anyway. In the short run, I'd rather be seen riding a Goose than a Bimmer*.

 

* - [unless it's a choice between being seen on a Centauro** vs. the HPS, then I'd go for the Bimmer!]

** - [Which I'm already down on record as considering one of the ugliest production motorcycles in modern times, only being edged out for the title by the ??? Mantis (another Marabese screw up from the same period) and Philip Starke's (sp) 'priller Moto 6.5. What was it about the late '90s that so many hideously ugly designs were being given the green light?]

 

Ride on!

I'd trade my bike for a Burgandy and Silver Centauro in a heart beat!

Bellissimo!

I was not concerned about the bend around the wheels, but around the tensioner.

But if that did not catch your attention, it is probably fine.

If I were to design it, I would run the chain around the intake, and use a free wheel for the tensioner.

[Skeeve]

I'd trade my bike for a Burgandy and Silver Centauro in a heart beat!

Bellissimo!

 

Proving yet again, that beauty truly is in the eye of the beholder!

 

The only thing I like about the Centauro is the engine: that is such of thing of beauty that it makes up considerably for the Centauro's shortfall in other criterions for attractiveness...

 

I was not concerned about the bend around the wheels, but around the tensioner.

But if that did not catch your attention, it is probably fine.

If I were to design it, I would run the chain around the intake, and use a free wheel for the tensioner.

 

Yes, I saw the bend around the tensioner, but other than the fact that it reverses the direction of bend vis-a-vis turning the corner round the cam sprocket, it is a much more gradual bend than that around the cam itself. No reliability issue to be expected here [altho' the actual performance of the tensioner is yet to be determined... ]

 

Yes, running the chain up one side of the cylinder & down the other, w/ the intake shooting the slot down the middle would be an alternative, but I'm fairly certain BMW's engineers must have considered it & gone the route they did for some overriding reason, probably having to do w/ keeping the rider's toes from kicking the intake manifolds w/ every brake or shift! Not a problem on a , but a very real concern on a Bimmer's sagging ti... uh, "horizontal cylinders."

 

Ride on!