bending aluminum?

[Ryland3210]

Hey thumbs up to everyone on the metallurgy discussions. Generally on the mark. So now I wonder why I spent so many years studying metallurgy when its quite apparent that a person doesn't have to be obsessed, in debt with student loans, eyes shot from hours of microscope work, stunted charm from years of female free labs, likely poisoned from heavy metals and noxious fumes. That lung full of sodium gas I inhaled modifying alloys in the furnace and excema [sic] skin from sand binder compounds..........

 

Well it was fun at the time

 

Since we have some knowledgeable folks here with actual practial hands on skills let me ask you:

 

I developed and patented an aluminum casting alloy that had a novel feature in the heat treatment..... It does not need to be quenched after solutionzing. It MUST be solutionized and then artificially aged to be stable but you don't need to quench it between. In fact you could pull it out and stick it in sand to cool with little reduction in properties. The stale air cooled samples actually had the same properties as quenched in water/coolant.

 

Its only useful up to about 170 celcius for a component above that the properties fall off like 356.

 

I was returned the rights to the patent as the company went out of business.

 

Thoughts were it could be useful alternative for parts that warp or crack from traditional quenching in liquids such as wheels.

 

Its very flexible in that you can monkey with the silicon etc for different casting processes and flowability {a made up jargon word} in the die or mold.

 

I haven't had the time to pursue marketing it but that may change as I'm probably going to be downsized soon. I"m not in the metallurgy field these days but do you think it has potential? Or is skipping a quench operation not that helpful in practice?

 

Without commenting on the metallurgical aspects, I would like to address what I know of high volume production operations. Quenching has the obvious advantage of reducing the time to bring the temperature down faster in preparation for the next operation, for example, machining of some form. That means less parts in the pipeline between casting and subsequent operations. Some machining operations are critical enough that part temperature can be a factor in controlling precision. Quenching has the advantage of rapidly bringing the part to the temperature of the quenching liquid, which can be accurately measured and maintained. It's not a costly process, either.

[mike wilson]

Getting back to basics; a tip I learned at school.

 

When annealing aluminium or many of the simpler alloys, wipe hard soap on the side away from the heat source. When the soap turns black, the alloy is hot enough.

[leafman60]

Good grief, we have some dueling egos here ! Sheeze. You guys are so insecure. Na na na na na.

 

Ok, about bending this Home Depot aluminum, y'all are making this way too complicated. Youre gonna cause somebody to burn their fingers or burn the garage down. You dont need to heat that stuff. Good lord. Itll bend just fine. I do it all the time. Its better if you can find a dummy object to bend it around so you wont scratch your muffler or wrap the muffler in duct tape. Then, just get on it and bend it. Itll go. It may try to spring back some unless you use a smaller dummy to bend around but you can hold it in place and afix your clamps.

[Guest ratchethack]

Good grief, we have some dueling egos here ! Sheeze. You guys are so insecure. Na na na na na.

 

Ok, about bending this Home Depot aluminum, y'all are making this way too complicated. Youre gonna cause somebody to burn their fingers or burn the garage down. You dont need to heat that stuff. Good lord. Itll bend just fine. I do it all the time. Its better if you can find a dummy object to bend it around so you wont scratch your muffler or wrap the muffler in duct tape. Then, just get on it and bend it. Itll go. It may try to spring back some unless you use a smaller dummy to bend around but you can hold it in place and afix your clamps.

LM, I'd pointed out exactly this in posts #4 and #7. Seems there've been those who've somehow felt compelled to exercise everything they know (and everything they don't know) about heat treating aluminum. Amazingly diverse, yet entirely irrelevant information.

[dlaing]

Good grief, we have some dueling egos here ! Sheeze. You guys are so insecure. Na na na na na.

 

Ok, about bending this Home Depot aluminum, y'all are making this way too complicated. Youre gonna cause somebody to burn their fingers or burn the garage down. You dont need to heat that stuff. Good lord. Itll bend just fine. I do it all the time. Its better if you can find a dummy object to bend it around so you wont scratch your muffler or wrap the muffler in duct tape. Then, just get on it and bend it. Itll go. It may try to spring back some unless you use a smaller dummy to bend around but you can hold it in place and afix your clamps.

 

This conversation started with an unknown aluminum, not necessarily Home Depot scrapolla.

He was having trouble bending it which might suggest that it is a tempered alloy.

If so, annealing could be easier than finding a suitable mold slightly smaller than the oval muffler or hoping that the metal is not T851.

Nobody is arguing against going to Home Depot and doing what you and Ratchet suggest.

I am just trying to get a better understanding of this, and preventing possibly misleading statements about quenching the aluminum when trying to anneal it. Sorry you don't find that important. And also sorry Nog hasn't convinced me of the wisdom of quenching.

Speaking of quenching, I need a break...

[Guest NotRight]

"Without commenting on the metallurgical aspects, I would like to address what I know of high volume production operations. Quenching has the obvious advantage of reducing the time to bring the temperature down faster in preparation for the next operation, for example, machining of some form. That means less parts in the pipeline between casting and subsequent operations. Some machining operations are critical enough that part temperature can be a factor in controlling precision. Quenching has the advantage of rapidly bringing the part to the temperature of the quenching liquid, which can be accurately measured and maintained. It's not a costly process, either."

 

Good point. I guess my post was off topic obviously, but appreciate the point you share. I knew that it was not a revolutionary development. But might have been useful for warp prone parts as you could cool them as slowly as required and not give up any properties. I no longer have the resources to further develop or investigate other potentials.

 

There was possibly an opportunity to forgo the artificial aging treatment and achieve it all through natural ageing but there are risks I sketched out that needed to be investigated.

 

In the end likely another one of my ideas of limited value, at least in this time/space location. I'll still always be proud of this one though because I invented it entirely by thinking and reading and what used to be taught as "thought experiments" to predict outcomes. ONce I was sure it worked in my mind I went down and cast a few samples to prove it. This has not much to do with my ego - it has more to do with being a person forever on the outside or doing his own thing and seeing things differently. Its importance to me is that I believe that it is not "what you learn" so much as development of critical thinking skills is whats important for a student.

 

I"m going to shut up now.

[dlaing]

I haven't had the time to pursue marketing it but that may change as I'm probably going to be downsized soon. I"m not in the metallurgy field these days but do you think it has potential? Or is skipping a quench operation not that helpful in practice?

I think it has potential, especially for large castings, and maybe complex castings.

Your buyers would have to weigh all the properties.

What Temper is obtained?

How do you anneal it?

How expensive would it be?

Strength?

Machinability?

Weldability?

etc.

Maybe you can find someone who has used your idea and sue them

[Ryland3210]

LM, I'd pointed out exactly this in posts #4 and #7. Seems there've been those who've somehow felt compelled to exercise everything they know (and everything they don't know) about heat treating aluminum. Amazingly diverse, yet entirely irrelevant information.

 

Is that the new you, Rathethack?! I'm glad to hear you have reformed.