roper plate revisited

[Dan M]

While in the midst of my annual maintenance, I have decided, what the hell, might as well fit one of Pete's plates while I'm at it. Where does one procure one of these? From Pete directly? Did I read once that somebody was stocking them in the US? Was that you Greg? Hurry, the money is burning a hole in my pocket.

[pete roper]

Greg might have one left, I think Todd is out of them. I just ordered another batch of 20 today though, should be ready next week. Cost will be much the same as before, probably a small increase due to materials cost. From memory the plates were about $155AU last time and shipping was about $20AU so I think they were about $175AU shipped It'll probably cost me $10 or 15 more per plate this time so say $190 if you but from me.

 

I've also had the design slightly modified. The clamp bolt holes for the thermostat/filter mounting munt I've had increased in size from 6.5mm to 7mm which should elliminate any of the previously reported problems with hole alignment. The outer ones were already 7mm but I think having that little bit of flexibility in the middle ones will mean that there will be enough *give* for things to line up without a struggle.

 

Pete

[Skeeve]

While in the midst of my annual maintenance, I have decided, what the hell, might as well fit one of Pete's plates while I'm at it. Where does one procure one of these? From Pete directly? Did I read once that somebody was stocking them in the US? Was that you Greg? Hurry, the money is burning a hole in my pocket.

 

Try Guzzitech, MPH or MotoInt'l.: iirc, all three picked up some plates "on spec" from Pete, in order to reduce the shipping vs. people buying individual plates & having them shipped from Oz.

 

Good luck! If I had any $ to spare, I'd do the same...

[docc]

Do the fasteners need to be changed to longer?

[Ryland3210]

Do the fasteners need to be changed to longer?

 

No, they're fine, but remember you will need another gasket, and maybe two, if you want insurance against the original coming off in pieces. FWIW, the gasket came off easily in my case. I greased the gaskets before putting it back together so it will be easy next time, too. Greg's instructions and pix are a great resource as well.

[Guest ratchethack]

The clamp bolt holes for the thermostat/filter mounting munt I've had increased in size from 6.5mm to 7mm which should elliminate any of the previously reported problems with hole alignment. The outer ones were already 7mm but I think having that little bit of flexibility in the middle ones will mean that there will be enough *give* for things to line up without a struggle.

FWIW, that's exactly the mod wot made mine fit like the proverbial "glove".

 

FWIW (Part II): We did a '04 LM same day, same run o' Roper plates. In this case, no alteration to original config required wotsoever. You gotta love the simply unfathomable case o' the mighty Guzzi Big Block, where most everything doesn't change for decades (with many notable, and completely unexplainable, exceptions).

[bikelee]

Please excuse my ignorance but what is a Roper plate and what does it do ? Thanks, Lee.

FWIW, that's exactly the mod wot made mine fit like the proverbial "glove".

 

FWIW (Part II): We did a '04 LM same day, same run o' Roper plates. In this case, no alteration to original config required wotsoever. You gotta love the simply unfathomable case o' the mighty Guzzi Big Block, where most everything doesn't change for decades (with many notable, and completely unexplainable, exceptions).

[Guest ratchethack]

Lee, there are many descriptions on this Forum, but none better than those of the Maestro hisself:

 

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?...mp;#entry106604

 

[polebridge]

I just read the thread posted by Ratchethack and now I am scared!

 

My oil light DID start flashing once under hard acceleration (the bike probably had about 1K miles at the time). I immediately shut the engine off and coasted to a stop. After checking the oil level and seeing it was ok I restarted the bike and it seemed fine. Just to be on the safe side I rode it home and took my truck to work that day.

 

I now have 9K trouble free miles on the bike but after reading Pete's thread I am very worried about what damage I may have done and when it might rear its ugly head!

 

Any thoughts on this? Does the collective wisdom of this board predict dire consequences in my future or do you think I am OK? I think I will install one of Pete's plates. Just hope the horses are not already out of the barn!

 

Thanks.

[pete roper]

Running with zero oil pressure bearing damage starts for all intents and purposes immediately. Guzzis have very nice, big bearing surfaces and they can take a fair bit of punishment before they develop insufficient load-carrying capacity. If you only once had this happen you'll probably be fine, yes the life of the bearings will of been diminished but by how much? Imposible to tell without inspection but they'll probably last 'Long enough' What happened though if you only noticed it once and it's happened more often?

 

My advice would be to drop the sump and spacer and drop off the big end caps for a looksee. Standard big end shells are dirt cheap and you can slip a set in with the rods in-situ from underneath with a bit of grovelling as long as you're sure the crankpin is OK. If the pin is damaged that's a different matter but its unlikely to be if the engine is currently running sweetly.

 

The ideal time to do this is, Ta-Da!!!!! When installing a sloppage sheet, but I would say that wouldn't I because I'm grasping, dishonest and venal.......

 

Pete

[Guest ratchethack]

Not to worry too much here, PB. Plain bearing shells let go by increments, not all at once. These motors are pretty tough, and they can take a fair amount of oil starvation abuse without necessarily rooting the bearings. If you nip the cause in the bud before too much damage has accrued, you can go on nearly indefinitely without symptoms. You just don't want too much damage to accumulate under any circumstances, or not too much doubt about it -- you'll eventually have a catastrophic failure on your hands.

 

To put it in perspective relative to your concerns, my Pal has a gorgeous '04 LM. He isn't very mechanically inclined, and has little grasp of how motors work. After first seeing him do hard launches and wheelies, I asked him if his oil light ever came on when he did this. He'd never given it the slightest attention. After I explained to him how oil starvation can, does, and has happened in these motors, including the details of worst case scenario, and why it's important to watch that oil light, he continued to ride as before. It sorta reminded me of the many times I've explained to many different women how short shifting and lugging a manual transmission car is a bad thing. They can't disagree because you might as well be speaking Swahili. So they just ignore the careful advice to work the motor up thru it's power band, and keep lugging it, and wottayagonna do?

 

My Pal's oil light was coming on so often that I occasionally noticed it myself from a distance, when starting up behind him on the road. He finally started to get the idea that maybe wot he'd been doing wasn't such a good idea after all when I told him I was ordering a Roper plate, and why. Since I NEVER do wheelies with my Guzzi, and have always been careful about hard launches so as not to expose the oil pickup, I guess he figured I was on to something after all. He liked the idea that with the Roper plate, he would (theoretically) be able to continue to do hard launches with far less concern than before. So we both installed 'em.

 

Since he had no symptoms of bearing failure before, I didn't even recommend he do a crank pin/bearing shell inspection when he had the sump off to do the plate installation.

 

Since we installed the plates, neither of us have seen our oil lights come on under hard acceleration. He stopped doing wheelies, and now we're BOTH paying attention.

 

BAA, TJM, & YMMV

 

HOOOBA! The Maestro's beat me to the punch with his post above. As usual, he tells it lots better than Yours Truly.

[polebridge]

Thanks for the advice guys. I am pretty sure this only happened the one time, and I shut her off very quickly, so I think I will keep my fingers crossed on this one and assume I am OK.

 

I think I'll get one of Pete's plates installed before spring just to be safe though. I really like this bike a lot and I would hate to run into any big problems.

[mike wilson]

It sorta reminded me of the many times I've explained to many different women how short shifting and lugging a manual transmission car is a bad thing. They can't disagree because you might as well be speaking Swahili, so they just ignore the careful advice to work the motor up thru it's power band, and keep lugging it, and wottayagonna do?

 

I'd love to know who started teaching this "Stomp on the pedal, listen to the engine wheeze and groan, wait till iit starts to pick up, change up and repeat" system of driving. It's universal.

[Ryland3210]

Thanks for the advice guys. I am pretty sure this only happened the one time, and I shut her off very quickly, so I think I will keep my fingers crossed on this one and assume I am OK.

 

I think I'll get one of Pete's plates installed before spring just to be safe though. I really like this bike a lot and I would hate to run into any big problems.

 

If you aren't aware of the dipstick marking question, here is a quick summary: When I refilled my sump with 3.5 liters, the level was still about 0.23" vertically below the gasket, and about 0.69" above the full mark with dipstick screwed in. I did a test before installation of the Roper Plate with a 4 quart refill. In first gear from a rolling start, accelerating at full throttle without doing a wheelie, my oil pressure gauge took a dive towards zero when I hit about 5,000 RPM. That's even with a little more oil than the 3.5 liter spec in my manual.

 

Pete recommends filling up to just under the plate, as I recall. That would correspond to 0.33+0.69= 1.02" above the full mark. I haven't figured out how much oil that would take, but it's more than 4 quarts.

 

Here's a picture during my installation:

[pete roper]

Dan or anyone else who's interested.

 

I had a huge clean out of my workshop yesterday and among the assorted munt I found a couple of sloppage sheets. As I said, I've got another batch on order but if anyone wants one NOW i can supply.

 

Pete