roper plate revisited

[dlaing]

With the Roper Plate, you can go to 4.5 quarts, including filter replacement.

 

Check the FAQ section for details on the dipstick calibration.

 

John

What were your oil pressure readings under acceleration before and after Roper Sheet?

[Ryland3210]

What were your oil pressure readings under acceleration before and after Roper Sheet?

 

Before Roper plate in first gear under max acceleration from a rolling start on level ground, it dropped to zero when I reached 4000-4500 RPM, with 4 quarts. In second gear again from rolling start, max accel, no drop. After installing the Roper plate, no drop in first. Pressure was normally 59 psi.

[pete roper]

Yes Pete. The light came on once but only briefly. Do I need to fill more oil in the sump? I put in just about 4 Liters.

 

Light came on only once that you noticed. It may of happened before or after without your being aware. As I previously mentioned the problem is that bearing damage will happen almost instantly but while it may not lead to sudden death the effects are going to be cumulative and get worse every time a delivery interuption occurs.

 

My take on the *correct* amount of oil is that level should be as close to the underside of the plate as possible as the lower it is the greater the opportunity for rearward, uninhibited, slop under hard acceleration and that is exactly what the plate is designed to prevent. This will be more than the *standard* quantity but IMHO not enough to cause problems with seals or breather function. Mark the stick and fill accordingly.

 

Pete

[gavo]

I've been following the debate about the benifits of the roper plate with interest as I've just bought a rosso mandello,(first guzzi). After much discussion with friends who have long history with guzzie's(mk1,mk3,lario and jackal) they laugh and use rude words and say never had any such problems, is this a design fault unique to the V11 sport and only under really hard acceleration or people getting a bit carried away

[gstallons]

You are a free moral agent. You have a choice to do what you want.

[gavo]

nice but u didn't really answer my question. u wouldn't be a politician by any chance.

[pete roper]

I've been following the debate about the benifits of the roper plate with interest as I've just bought a rosso mandello,(first guzzi). After much discussion with friends who have long history with guzzie's(mk1,mk3,lario and jackal) they laugh and use rude words and say never had any such problems, is this a design fault unique to the V11 sport and only under really hard acceleration or people getting a bit carried away

 

(Sigh.) The sump and pick-up design of the V11's, (And the Sport-i/Daytona and Centauro models) is completely different to the earlier big blocks. The Lario is a smallblock and once again is a completely different design, (It actually has a sort of 'Slopage Sheet' cast into the crankcase but for different purposes.). Whether or not my design is complete charlatanry is basically irrelevant if it is being discussed by people who don't know the differences between the various models. Do a search on the subject on this board and you'll find all the pro and anti arguments discussed to the N'th degree. Sorry. I simply can't be bothered explaining it all over again.

 

Pete

[Greg Field]

I've been following the debate about the benifits of the roper plate with interest as I've just bought a rosso mandello,(first guzzi). After much discussion with friends who have long history with guzzie's(mk1,mk3,lario and jackal) they laugh and use rude words and say never had any such problems, is this a design fault unique to the V11 sport and only under really hard acceleration or people getting a bit carried away

 

 

Guzzi folks suffer more than most from the syndrome "It ain't never happened to me, so there can't possibly be a problem." Mention filters spontaneously spinning off, and hear them howl again.

 

Guzzi folks also suffer inordinately from the opposite syndrome, which some call "Guzzichondria."

 

Where to strike a balance?

 

I work at a Guzzi shop selling parts all over the world and get to hear about and see what breaks and what does not. I also fix Guzzis in my own garage on the side. I don't have a definitive answer, but on my own V11 I have a slopper and a hose clamp that prevents the filter from spinning off without my permission.

[gstallons]

First of all you have to understand why this plate is made. It is designed to retard the flow of oil in the crankcase from side to side or front to back. It also is designed to catch oil droplets and return them to the pan to keep them out of the way of c/shaft rotation.

Is it the best design? NO Is it the best so far? YES. A compliment to this would be hinged doors in four corners of the pick-up to allow the oil flow towards the pick-up and not away.

Mr Roper is an inventor not a salesman.

The Moto-Spezial oil pan looks good to me because it has a deep sump to catch the oil in a vee design.

p.s. If you don't want it don't buy it..........

[mike wilson]

is this a design fault unique to the V11 sport and only under really hard acceleration or people getting a bit carried away

 

In order to give you a straight answer: yes, to all three. The sloppage plate goes a long way to preventing oil starvation under certain conditions that are quite easy to achieve and also helps in some other ways.

[OregonAl]

I ordered a sloppage plate from MPH last week. Since I am planning to do a track day with the Tenni at the National Rally, I figured putting one in along with an oil filter clamp is cheap insurance. Especially since I am so fast on the track

[polebridge]

I've been following the debate about the benifits of the roper plate with interest as I've just bought a rosso mandello,(first guzzi). After much discussion with friends who have long history with guzzie's(mk1,mk3,lario and jackal) they laugh and use rude words and say never had any such problems, is this a design fault unique to the V11 sport and only under really hard acceleration or people getting a bit carried away

 

I can tell you that my oil light came on under hard acceleration in first gear when there was clearly 'enough' oil in the bike. It was only after that that I learned, through this board, about this issue with V11s and the Roper plate. I now have one installed and only wish that I had learned about this BEFORE my oil light came on. Then I would not have to worry constantly about what, if any, damage has been done.

 

My advice. If you feel competent with a wrench, then install one of these plates and fill to the oil level recommended by these guys. Here are the instructions:

 

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=9425

 

Sometimes it's good to get carried away.

[rocker59]

I've been following the debate about the benifits of the roper plate with interest as I've just bought a rosso mandello,(first guzzi). After much discussion with friends who have long history with guzzie's(mk1,mk3,lario and jackal) they laugh and use rude words and say never had any such problems, is this a design fault unique to the V11 sport and only under really hard acceleration or people getting a bit carried away

 

 

Yes...

[pete roper]

The Moto-Spezial oil pan looks good to me because it has a deep sump to catch the oil in a vee design.

p.s. If you don't want it don't buy it..........

 

In a previous post I explained exhaustively and at great length why I actually believe that in THIS application my plate, or something similar, is actually superior to the V sump. Whilst it is inevitably going to be a Quixotic undertaking I'll reitterate that the plate was designed to do ONE THING and one thing only. That is to inhibit, but not stop, the rearward slop of oil to prevent pick-up exposure under severe acceleration. It isn't supposed to offer any performance gain, was not designed to offer any and has never been sold as a performance enhancing product, (Unless you consider not rattling to a halt with shagged out big ends to be a performance issue ). If you want a *real* windage tray with weirs, dams and scrapers one could be designed without too many problems but this would defeat one of the major objectives of the entire project which was to produce something that;

 

a.) Worked.

 

b.) Was unobtrusive.

 

c.) Was easy to install.

 

and...........

 

d.) Was CHEAP!!!! This last one being probably the most important criteria when dealing with your average Guzzi owner as we tend to be the sort of people who are so mean that we can peel and eat an orange without taking our hands out of our pockets

 

Many people will probably never need the protection offered by the sheet. To be honest I'm most likely one of them as I'm neither a good or a fast rider and only pop wheelies occasionally by mistake, (Any power being used to lift up the combined bike and rider is being wasted when it could be used for making the horizon come towards you faster!). When I designed the prototype of the 'Broad Sump' plate I didn't even own a V11. I now do and it WILL have a plate fitted before I ride it any distance simply because to ME it makes sense to fit an unobtrusive plate costing peanuts rather than even risking destroying my crank and connecting rods and a host of bearings and even possibly the crankcase

 

The use of a plate, like the use of a hose clamp on the filter, is NOT compulsory. I've never had a filter come undone. That doesn't mean that it doesn't happen, once again the results can be disastrous. Certainly on my Scura I'll be using a hose clamp on the filter simply because it is cheap and easy insurance. Anybody who feels that any mod is un-neccessary is under NO compulsion to undertake said mod! It really is mind bogglingly simple.

 

Pete

[savagehenry]

...and after well over 500 miles on my bike since the addition of a plate, I have not seen a single red light under power, which I used to see with some regularity when I wasn't careful . Also, it FEELS like the motor now spins more freely (purely subjective, mind you) as a result of keeping the oil down in the pan as opposed to being slung all over the inside of the crankcase, and forcing the flywheels and rods to shed the ensuing torrent of oil Pete has PROVEN happens when you are spinning your motor at 80-120 FULL ROTATIONS PER SECOND! (5-7000 rpm+/-). If you do fast take offs, I feel it is a NO BRAINER to put one in. Like it or not, it is a inhereint flaw in the design of our bikes. But of course, it's your bike and your choice. Look at the list of people who have done it (not to mention its VERY easy to install), and you'll see alot of extremely knowledgable Guzzi people who have it, along with the chuckleheads like me. That is enough for me, 'nuff said. , S.H.