HI Idle

[ALdad]

Valve adj.,tps and throttle body ballance. I backed off both idle screws. disconnected linkage. disconnected choke. set TPS to 150. tried to set to 520 for ballance and idle, too high . readjust linkage no tention. air bypasses 1/2 turn out from close. bodies ballanced with linkage adjuster and rt screw. Runs great but idle is at 1300-1400 and the TPS is at idle 360 air bleeds at 1 or 1/2 not much difference. LF screw not in contact. If I back off RT side screw it won't ballance. any ideas!?

[mark.gilmore]

Valve adj.,tps and throttle body ballance. I backed off both idle screws. disconnected linkage. disconnected choke. set TPS to 150. tried to set to 520 for ballance and idle, too high . readjust linkage no tention. air bypasses 1/2 turn out from close. bodies ballanced with linkage adjuster and rt screw. Runs great but idle is at 1300-1400 and the TPS is at idle 360 air bleeds at 1 or 1/2 not much difference. LF screw not in contact. If I back off RT side screw it won't ballance. any ideas!?

Follow the pinned instructions above TPS.The left idle screw should be the one in contact,not the right. It{the right screw}should be backed off.

My fast idle was still touching, backed all the way off,so I got rid of it.Follow the step by step you will get it.

[ALdad]

Follow the pinned instructions above TPS.The left idle screw should be the one in contact,not the right. It{the right screw}should be backed off.

My fast idle was still touching, backed all the way off,so I got rid of it.Follow the step by step you will get it.

When I back off the RT screw I can't get ballance with rod disconnected.

[docc]

ALdad,

 

The pinned method relies on the linkage for balance under way and at idle. Hence, they defeat the right side idle screw.

 

I prefer to use both sides to balance the idle with the stops (the "Jeff in Ohio" method) I don't think it makes a lot of difference either way.

 

The great thing about the pinned method is it doesn't leave anything out and is laid out in a proper sequence. Try going through it again being careful not to get anything out of order.

[dlaing]

Valve adj.,tps and throttle body ballance. I backed off both idle screws. disconnected linkage. disconnected choke. set TPS to 150. tried to set to 520 for ballance and idle, too high . readjust linkage no tention. air bypasses 1/2 turn out from close. bodies ballanced with linkage adjuster and rt screw. Runs great but idle is at 1300-1400 and the TPS is at idle 360 air bleeds at 1 or 1/2 not much difference. LF screw not in contact. If I back off RT side screw it won't ballance. any ideas!?

You seem to be doing everything right.

The only thing I can think of is that the throttle body was not all the way home at 150mV.

When setting the 150mV you need to make sure that not only is the choke disconnected, but that it does not interfere.

The return spring on the right throttle body could be binding. Try cleaning spring with carb cleaner and lube with silicone spray(anyone have a better solution? I have some concern that the lube attracts dirt, but I think it is worth it to reduce oxidation.)

It may be necessary to gently force the right throttle body home by moving the linkage lever to the right.

Since the throttle body valve spends most of its time in the idle position it wants to stay there.

If you had set the TPS to 150mV and the right throttle body was not fully home, then setting idle TPS to 360mV or 520mV would surely result in a very high idle.

I hope that helps.

And ditto on the follow the pinned instructions.

As a distraction to your question, your result is making me think that maybe the WOT TPS, Wide Open Throttle Throttle Position Sensor measurement system would be better.

The linkage should still be disconnected, but the results might be more consistent and there would be no need to mess with set screws or choke. If anyone wants to discuss this, I will move this idea to the pinned TPS thread.

[dlaing]

When I back off the RT screw I can't get ballance with rod disconnected.

I think you are fine using the RT screw.

After you get the TPS set to 150mV, screw in the right idle set screw until you get 520mV (or whatever works for you), then reconnect and and balance with the linkage adjuster knob. This will keep the TPS at 520mV. If you use the left screw it can throw off the TPS (which can be OK, but first try it keeping the left screw backed away from contact.)

I too find I get better balance using the RT screw.

[raz]

As a distraction to your question, your result is making me think that maybe the WOT TPS, Wide Open Throttle Throttle Position Sensor measurement system would be better.

The linkage should still be disconnected, but the results might be more consistent and there would be no need to mess with set screws or choke. If anyone wants to discuss this, I will move this idea to the pinned TPS thread.

This is just a guess and my gut feeling, but I don't expect that to work very well. This will set it in the less critical end. I'm not sure how to put it.

 

Also, if it would work we still can't set the idle, only the base (opposite of 150 mV). Right? And since the linkage is disconnected, are you thinking we should hold the butterfly at WOT by hand? Or do I misinterpret what your are thinking?

 

Last, most multimeters (I think all three of mine) will only give two decimals at that range. My reading at WOT right now is 4.84V (with a base of 175 mV)

 

Other than that, it's an excellent think-out-of-the-box idea

[dlaing]

Hi Raz,

I am going to move my reply to your post to the pinned thread.

[ALdad]

I think you are fine using the RT screw.

After you get the TPS set to 150mV, screw in the right idle set screw until you get 520mV (or whatever works for you), then reconnect and and balance with the linkage adjuster knob. This will keep the TPS at 520mV. If you use the left screw it can throw off the TPS (which can be OK, but first try it keeping the left screw backed away from contact.)

I too find I get better balance using the RT screw.

This is what I did. It makes the most sence to me, as the ballance should be very close using the link for the fine tune.

The bike is not running as well as I thought yesterday. Today Some coughs at low RPM- 4000.

Which way do you turn the air bleeds to increase or decrease idle , open-counter clock will increace idle? I am set at 1/2 open now.

I did'nt mention the bike has mistrals,stucci cross and a power commander if that makes any diff.But I guess it should'nt cause It was fine before I f##@ked it up!!

[docc]

ALdad,

 

More air (counter-clockwise) raises the idle. I've always found my Sport to idle better at 1 full turn, especially in the hot weather.

 

After you set the closed throttle TPS to 150 mV (being certain it is completely closed*), did you then, immediately, turn in the idle screw to bring the reading to 520mV?

 

Balance is a separate issue and should not be confused with TPS setting.

 

(*You're sure the fast idle cm is not in contact?)

[ALdad]

ALdad,

 

More air (counter-clockwise) raises the idle. I've always found my Sport to idle better at 1 full turn, especially in the hot weather.

 

After you set the closed throttle TPS to 150 mV (being certain it is completely closed*), did you then, immediately, turn in the idle screw to bring the reading to 520mV?

 

Balance is a separate issue and should not be confused with TPS setting.

 

(*You're sure the fast idle cm is not in contact?)

Yes this is what I tried to do. It runs better at 1/2 than 1 bypass screw turns. Idle is slightly above the first mark above 1000. At one turn out on bypasses it is almost at the next mark, way too high. I will try the whole process again this WKnd.

What I am wondering now is ,does all this changing of the TPS affect the PC and dyno tune. Will that have to be redone? I am a novice mechanic ,obviously, but trying to learn .

Another question, If the 150 and the 520 values are used. and if the idle is OK, now with the twinmax hooked up the rt side has the deviation. To ballance , the stop screw or bypass are adjusted and idle goes too high. perhaps the 150 is too high for my bike. Does this make sense .If I start with a lower value would this have a lower idle?, I feel so stupid for not making a note of what the originel values were .It was running just fine but I wanted to see if I could improve it,do I need a blow to the head?

I guess the idle is within the acceptable range but the bike hunts, sputters ,and is slugish. the plugs are the typical two tone dkbrn one side clean the other. Thanx for any input before I try it again. Cheer!! Alan

[raz]

What I am wondering now is ,does all this changing of the TPS affect the PC and dyno tune. Will that have to be redone? I am a novice mechanic ,obviously, but trying to learn .

Another question, If the 150 and the 520 values are used. and if the idle is OK, now with the twinmax hooked up the rt side has the deviation. To ballance , the stop screw or bypass are adjusted and idle goes too high. perhaps the 150 is too high for my bike. Does this make sense .If I start with a lower value would this have a lower idle?, I feel so stupid for not making a note of what the originel values were .It was running just fine but I wanted to see if I could improve it,do I need a blow to the head?

I guess the idle is within the acceptable range but the bike hunts, sputters ,and is slugish. the plugs are the typical two tone dkbrn one side clean the other. Thanx for any input before I try it again. Cheer!! Alan

Any dynoing/tuning should start with fresh TPS adjustment, so if anything this should make it more close to what was once tuned. The 150 mV is important for that. The higher setting you can fiddle about with (eg. to lower idle), not the base 150 mV.

[Ryland3210]

ALdad,

 

The pinned method relies on the linkage for balance under way and at idle. Hence, they defeat the right side idle screw.

 

I prefer to use both sides to balance the idle with the stops (the "Jeff in Ohio" method) I don't think it makes a lot of difference either way.

 

The great thing about the pinned method is it doesn't leave anything out and is laid out in a proper sequence. Try going through it again being careful not to get anything out of order.

 

Here Here!

 

Using either or both idle screws can work. We've been through all this analysis before. The advantage of using only the left is that it prevents backlash in the connecting linkage from changing the balance between idle and above.

 

Here's why: If there is backlash and the right idle screw is in contact at idle, it shifts the connecting linkage from tension to compression, causing the left throttle to close more relative to the right at idle. Then, when the throttle is cracked, the left opens first as the connecting linkage shifts from compression to tension.

 

If the procedure is followed step by step as docc says, there is no advantage to using the right idle screw, only a possible disadvantage.

[dlaing]

Here Here!

 

Using either or both idle screws can work. We've been through all this analysis before. The advantage of using only the left is that it prevents backlash in the connecting linkage from changing the balance between idle and above.

 

Here's why: If there is backlash and the right idle screw is in contact at idle, it shifts the connecting linkage from tension to compression, causing the left throttle to close more relative to the right at idle. Then, when the throttle is cracked, the left opens first as the connecting linkage shifts from compression to tension.

 

If the procedure is followed step by step as docc says, there is no advantage to using the right idle screw, only a possible disadvantage.

Thanks for reminding me. I had forgotten the importance of removing backlash and how the process we outlined WORKS!

I USED to set it up using the right set screw because it balanced better the compromise between idle balance and balance above 3000rpm. But I learned (and recently forgot) that it is better to use the left screw, and the right screw can be permanently backed out.

When we created the instructions here

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=12204

I learned that the value of no backlash is more important.

Also, it is not important what your twinmax is reading between 3000- 8000 rpm

Just take the reading at idle and between 2000-3000.

Yes please do as the others suggested and follow the instructions.

Sorry, mea culpa. I was living in the past, which worked too, but not as well.

[Ryland3210]

Thanks for reminding me. I had forgotten the importance of removing backlash and how the process we outlined WORKS!

I USED to set it up using the right set screw because it balanced better the compromise between idle balance and balance above 3000rpm. But I learned (and recently forgot) that it is better to use the left screw, and the right screw can be permanently backed out.

When we created the instructions here

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=12204

I learned that the value of no backlash is more important.

Also, it is not important what your twinmax is reading between 3000- 8000 rpm

Just take the reading at idle and between 2000-3000.

Yes please do as the others suggested and follow the instructions.

Sorry, mea culpa. I was living in the past, which worked too, but not as well.

 

You're an honorable man, Dave.