Crooz Posted January 31, 2008 Posted January 31, 2008 So is it a grenade response where a sniper rifle is needed? Some further explanation would be nice. Nige. <_>I totally agree !!!
Dan M Posted January 31, 2008 Posted January 31, 2008 ...I won't involve myself in anything close to what seems to have sparked this off again. My promise to all, with sincere apologies to Jaap and the Forum for my part in the whole mess. Most humble regards, RH Quite proper of you Ratchet. Now let's get on with our new lives sitting under the gallows. And remember, big brother is watching. Oops, never mind.
Guest Nogbad Posted January 31, 2008 Posted January 31, 2008 Well, I guess that because I am politically engaged, and have been a major contributor to the parts of the forum that have resulted in this I must be part of the problem too. I just want to reiterate one of my previous posts, along the lines that bikers, like any other special interest group that meet through that interest, are not one dimensional characters with one track minds (or 2 track if you include Hooters!). We are all adults with various experiences, families and opinions on the world. People who get together for one reason, quite naturally will discuss other things, and it is necessary if real friendships are to form. Of course, we will also meet people we don't want to befriend, for many valid reasons. This is just life, and it is inevitable that there will be disagreements. This is where good manners, an easy going nature and a stiff upper lip are needed. Robust discussion is a good thing, and political engagement is in short supply in this world, and should be encouraged, not treated as some kind of mental illness. Yes, it is a great board, or it has been until now. I note a significant number agree with the new rules or are simply scared to suggest the board owner might not have perfect judgement. I will say it: I think Jaap is wrong. Taking this approach will simply drive out a lot of regular posters and visitors who over the years have not only made valuable technical and biking contributions useful to all, but have also shared a lot else of their lives on here to the enrichment of all our experience. What will result now is a watered down board where most of the interesting characters will no longer visit or post much. The right approach would not be to ban subjects, but bad manners and bad behaviour. We have seen bad behaviour in technical arguments recently and not just ye old GW threads. Another good question is why create the banter forum at all? Why not just prune all the forums to the bare acceptable number of subjects and provide posting guidance if there are subjects the board owner simply doesn't want to host for his own reasons? Hey Jaap, it's your board; if you don't want to host stuff you don't agree with or find offensive, just say so in your personal email to us all. Probation - Pah! I am very close to terminating my involvement here.
DeBenGuzzi Posted January 31, 2008 Posted January 31, 2008 I have to believe that Jaap didn't realize how many people that just scan the site and don't really post here would get the wrong idea, the threat was focused at a few "regular" posters in the banter section and has nothing to do with the majority, although sometimes the majority gets their nickers in it too, if you want some clarification of whats going on with this check the archive section at the bottom of forum menu page, you'll see what Jaap is referring too.
Ballacraine Posted January 31, 2008 Posted January 31, 2008 No Ben, IMO that is missing the point..... The threat wasn't focussed it was 'Agent Orange'd! What is getting a significant proportion of people uppity is the manner he has dealt with the perceived problem. Nige.
Guest Nogbad Posted January 31, 2008 Posted January 31, 2008 No Ben, IMO that is missing the point..... What is getting a significant proportion of people uppity is the manner he has dealt with the perceived problem. Nige. I don't even think there WAS a real problem. There is some kind of hidden agenda lurking somewhere as behaviour and the nature of the postings has not really changed in over 2 years. If you compare this board to others out there, it has been a model of restrained and civilised behaviour - very very few threads go off topic in the serious technical and riding technique areas. Banter really has been kept to the banter section where those who don't like it don't need to read it. At the age of 48, I don't think I am ready to be told what I can and cannot discuss with other private citizens in a web forum where we are all there of our own volition.
Guest m8rt Posted January 31, 2008 Posted January 31, 2008 Didn't even know I was a member until I got the email putting me on probation. Had to do a search to find the site. I've got a Norge, why would I post on a Lemans forum?
Ballacraine Posted January 31, 2008 Posted January 31, 2008 At the age of 48, I don't think I am ready to be told what I can and cannot discuss with other private citizens in a web forum where we are all there of our own volition. I have to say... I quite agree...... Nige.(50)
Anthony Posted January 31, 2008 Posted January 31, 2008 ... I won't involve myself in anything close to what seems to have sparked this off again. My promise to all, with sincere apologies to Jaap and the Forum for my part in the whole mess. Most humble regards, RH Ratchethack, Thanks for stepping forward and taking responsibility for your actions. I'd hate to lose this forum. It is an excellent resource. There aren't very many forums managed as well as Jaap does this. My son and a few friends are getting ready to start a site and have visitied V11 to get some ideas about getting started, features, and content management. Their response was "WOW, somebody did it alone." They realize the complexity of the project they are starting and the regular work they have ahead of them to do it right. We have a really good thing with this forum! I know we think it, but we need to say it and act on it too. I am not as frequent a visitor as I'd like to be, but every visit has always been an enjoyable and learning experience. Cheers for Jaap!
Guest Nogbad Posted January 31, 2008 Posted January 31, 2008 I have to say... I quite agree...... Nige.(50) If you read the circular probation mail, you will see that the threat is not to pull individual members' accounts if they post prohibited material; the threat made is to take the entire board down for everyone, if anyone posts a topic that the administrator doesn't like. This is like expelling an entire school class for the misdemeanour of one child. It is the same approach that Israel uses in the Gaza strip, and collective punishment is illegal under both the Geneva convention and the European Charter on Human Rights. There, I have posted some inflammatory politics, and connected the same to the board's management - Will it now go offline, or will my personal account be pulled. I await developments with interest.
Ballacraine Posted January 31, 2008 Posted January 31, 2008 (Billy Idol) ...and the World stood still! Nige.
Bill Hagan Posted January 31, 2008 Posted January 31, 2008 **** This is just life, and it is inevitable that there will be disagreements. This is where good manners, an easy going nature and a stiff upper lip are needed. **** Exactly, which is why the reaction to all of this puzzles me. Even if jaap was wrong on the merits of what prompted his notice and erred in the manner (points that I do not necessarily concede, because I don't really know the former, and was not troubled particularly by the latter), would not application of the above--good manners, an easy going nature and a stiff upper lip--result in a "bye" for jaap, not a good-bye from members, especially stalwarts such as you and others here? OK, hope it all sorts itself out. I'm going out to the garage to gaze at my just-arrived HyperPro shock for my Norge ... wishing I were smart enough to put in on all by myself ... but that's why I come to boards ... somebody will take pity on me! Regards from cold, wet Atlanta, Bill
Lamedog Posted January 31, 2008 Posted January 31, 2008 The email was upsetting, glad to find I'm not alone. I accept the caution. The gloves were starting to come off a bit over in 'Motha, and I can understand the host feeling the need to "flip the lights on bright". I do it regular when my daughter has friends over. I remember reading threads from a couple years back when it was about airboxes, crossovers and the like. What a civilized time. Such unruly buggers nowadays. Being as I'm from the Bay Area of California, I advise we act on Jaap's guidance and politically correct this place right now - say by offering to balance the Hooters thread with photos of a bunch of 50 year old guys in speedos. Wait..... maybe not. At least not me.
JohnO Posted January 31, 2008 Posted January 31, 2008 I joined on 10/23/07 and haven't posted yet. Very touching email. Thanks.
Guest Nogbad Posted January 31, 2008 Posted January 31, 2008 I joined on 10/23/07 and haven't posted yet. Very touching email. Thanks. I wouldn't worry. You can treat it as a mistake - it was intended for me, among others.
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