Relays: New alternative available

[Ryland3210]

I'm ready to ship Omron high reliability relays!

 

The first bulk order will be placed tomorrow, Feb. 4th, so let me know by early morning if you want to be included in this batch. I have to order in bulk to keep costs down.

 

I'm happy to say I have Dan Pruneske's blessing. I didn't want to interfere with his livelihood, so I offered to supply him as an exclusive distributor. Dan declined because he does not want to add to his retail business. He even offered to set up a link to www.motratech.com once I post descriptions on that website. He's doing very well in CE consulting, and does not wish to expand his retail business. On top of that, he has plenty of outside activities.

 

Interestingly, Dan's view on specs is pretty sceptical. He gave me no pushback on the relay comparison I did. He feels manufacturers can put out any specs they want. In my case, I believe Japanese and U.S. makers are more credible than the notorious Chinese. These are made by Omron in the U.S.

 

My introductory pricing is $8 for the sealed version and $5 for the unsealed for my friends on this forum that have been waiting patiently. I can only offer the SPDT version, which will work in all positions. This is basically at my cost. If volume builds, I'll keep the prices at that level. If not, I will consider raising prices later on. Introductory shipping and packing cost will be $5.00 within the domestic U.S. regardless of quantity, because I can fit lots of them in the US Postal Service mailer.

 

For details, see my test report below. For any other questions, send me a PM.

 

Please send check or money order payable to Matra Inc., addressed to:

 

John Mickowski

50 Walling Road

Warwick, NY 10990

 

Remember to include your shipping address and how many of each type you want

 

Thanks for your patience.

 

 

Test report, January, 2008

by: J. Mickowski, B.Eng. MS Computer Science

 

Analysis: The construction of the GEI AR4-1 relay was compared to the Omron G8HN equivalent, and a vibration test was conducted to determine whether either exhibited contact bounce.

 

Both of the relays passed the vibration test. Neither relay showed any contact bounce over the frequency range for equivalent RPM's from 1,000 up to 10,000. The NC contact remained in contact throughout the test for both relays.

 

The construction comparison is as follows:

 

_Brand: _____________ GEI ________ Omron

Moving contact mat.___ Silver alloy____Silver alloy

NC contact mat._______Copper________Silver alloy

NO contact mat._______Copper________Silver alloy

Moving contact dia.____0.085/0.083”___0.099/0.098”

Terminal material______Plated Brass____Plated Copper

 

The magnetic coils appeared almost identical. The Omron coil appeared to contain more copper. Both had inductive voltage spike suppression resistors.

The thermal conduction path for contact heat was better for the Omron, as it used heavier cross section conductors for the contacts through to the terminals, especially on the NO contact, which is used for starting. The additional 1 gram weight of the Omrons is consistent with this.

 

In comparing the manufacturer’s specifications, the Omron is rated higher than the GEI in every category except steady load current. These include inrush current, maximum initial contact voltage, high frequency vibration, and operating temperature.

 

Omron also includes reliability testing specifications, shock, humidity, inductive load reliability, and overload inrush testing at 100 amp and 20 amp steady load to 300,000 cycles. GEI does not provide corresponding specifications.

 

Conclusion: The GEI is rated at 25 amps for the NO contact and 20 amps for the NC, whereas the Omron is rated at 20 and 10 respectively. In my opinion, there is no basis for the higher contact ratings claimed by GEI. If anything, they should be lower than Omron's ratings when based on the same objective criteria. In further support of this, the inrush current capacity of the NO contact specified by GEI is 25 amps, as compared to 60 specified by Omron.

[windchill]

Hi, any idea where I could get the same thing in the UK? My biggewst problem is with the relay that fires up the fuel system: quite often have to spend up to half an hour messing about with it until the bike will even start!

[Ryland3210]

Hi, any idea where I could get the same thing in the UK? My biggewst problem is with the relay that fires up the fuel system: quite often have to spend up to half an hour messing about with it until the bike will even start!

 

I'm not aware of these being available in the U.K., but shipping to the UK is straightforward.

[Guest guzzibear]

Hi, any idea where I could get the same thing in the UK? My biggewst problem is with the relay that fires up the fuel system: quite often have to spend up to half an hour messing about with it until the bike will even start!

 

Windchill, I bought some of Dan's realays and even with the shipping costs it was less than the cost of one relay in the UK.

A replacement in the UK is around £15 which roughly equates to $30 ish USD so 5 relays and the cost of shipping is a good deal.

 

It does take 2-4 days to get here depending who they or you use to ship. I work for FedEx so I get a 75% discount on shipping cost. However if you want to pay for shipping from the USA to UK go online and look at "Parcel2go" their costings are heavily discounted.

 

The customs fees on my relays was nil. Be aware that if you use Parcel force/Post Office they make a charge for dealing with customs paperwork.

[mike wilson]

Hi, any idea where I could get the same thing in the UK? My biggewst problem is with the relay that fires up the fuel system: quite often have to spend up to half an hour messing about with it until the bike will even start!

 

Halfords own brand 30A relay £4.99

 

If you are feeling particularly anal, you could wipe a smear of RTV or grease around the joint. Buy two and have a spare....

[windchill]

Cool, thanks guys.

 

So, Ryland, how do I order from/via your good self please?

[Guest Phil_P]

Halfords own brand 30A relay £4.99

 

If you are feeling particularly anal, you could wipe a smear of RTV or grease around the joint. Buy two and have a spare....

 

Mike, are you talking about the miniature relays (about 25mm x 15mm x 30mm high) or the normal automotive ones (about 30mm cube)?

 

This thread is about the miniature ones (Siemens as standard, and notoriously unreliable) on many Guzzi's

[Ryland3210]

Cool, thanks guys.

 

So, Ryland, how do I order from/via your good self please?

 

Hi Windchill,

 

Sorry it took so long to get back to you, I've been traveling all week.

 

Here's the details:

 

Sealed Relays are $8 each, plus shipping. If there is a Western Union nearby to you, that's the most convenient way from overseas at my end. A money order is OK as well as a check. If it's a check, it should be made out in U.S. dollars, otherwise the currency exchange fee will be onorous at this end.

 

Please tell me how you want to have me ship them. I can then find out the cost and let you know before you send any money.

 

Also, I'll need your shipping address, of course. I hope you don't think I'm being pushy, but you might want to look at www.motratech.com to see if you are interested in anything else I make. Combining in a shipment saves shipping expense.

 

Cheers,

John

[al_roethlisberger]

Perhaps too early to tell... but do we have any "long term" reliability feedback on the Omrons yet?

 

Do we know the typical "lifespan" of Dan's replacement relays? I've had mine now for about 5 years I guess.

 

 

I only ask because the Siemens were, as noted, notoriously unreliable... and Dan's replacement relays seem to have held up quite well from what I can tell. So is there an advantage to switch out Dan's with the Omrons, or is this really just an option to replace the original Siemens?

 

I guess the "sealed" Omron versions would be one advantage, as I think I recall that some folks did have issues with relays deteriorating due to condensation... although I'm not certain.

 

 

...just rambling my various thoughts out-loud Sorry

 

Al

[docc]

Al,

 

I never had a Siemens failure , but replaced with the Bosch to be safe. I never had a Bosch failure, but replaced them with the GEI 'to be safe.'

 

I did have GEI failures in the FI and ECU circuits and replaced them with the Omron to get the bike to run right again. Too early to tell, but I'll keep the Bosch on hand for spares.

[mike wilson]

Mike, are you talking about the miniature relays (about 25mm x 15mm x 30mm high) or the normal automotive ones (about 30mm cube)?

 

This thread is about the miniature ones (Siemens as standard, and notoriously unreliable) on many Guzzi's

 

Sorry, standard relays. Didn't realise that the ones you are talking about are miniatures. It's not clear from the photographs. 8-))

[Steve G.]

Al,

 

I never had a Siemens failure , but replaced with the Bosch to be safe. I never had a Bosch failure, but replaced them with the GEI 'to be safe.'

 

I did have GEI failures in the FI and ECU circuits and replaced them with the Omron to get the bike to run right again. Too early to tell, but I'll keep the Bosch on hand for spares.

 

 

You've been lucky I think. When I bought my V11 new, the dealer gave me two handfulls of Siemens, and I went through all of them. A fresh handfull of Bosch relays were also deleted. The GEI's have been much better, but they too seem to be taxed to the edge on one of the V11's circuits, namely the tachometer/lighting circuit. I still have a bunch from my purchase, but am going to go with the Omrons once I hear feedback.

Steve

[Steve G.]

I checked the local Omron rep, with typical Canadian pricing, $12.75 each, plus taxes of course.

Steve

[Ryland3210]

I checked the local Omron rep, with typical Canadian pricing, $12.75 each, plus taxes of course.

Steve

 

Gosh, I seem to be giving away the store at $8! My cost has just gone up by $.52. I may have to increase prices, unless I can buy in greater quantities.

[OregonAl]

Gosh, I seem to be giving away the store at $8! My cost has just gone up by $.52. I may have to increase prices, unless I can buy in greater quantities.

 

Any chance that you could set up your site to accept Paypal? Payment is instantaneous and guys like me who don't like to write checks could just click and buy. I know you'd sell at least one more set of relays and maybe an oil pressure gauge.