Cross About Crossover

[Bill Hagan]

Asked about this on the wildguzzi board earlier today when I wasn't even sure it was a problem. I have now been told it is, but am now (there's always something) worried that further riding may harm the bike. My dealer hasn't yet returned my call, thus this email.

 

I searched the prior posts, but did not see this same issue. I apologize in advance if this old ground, often plowed.

 

The crossover pipe between the header pipes just below the manifold "floats." I cannot tighten the allen bolts, and this looseness on both sides causes harmonic vibration, most noticeable when backing off throttle.

 

Oddly (to me), does not seem to be leaking much exhaust gas, but am concerned that riding with such a condition might harm engine somehow.

 

So...am I nuts to worry or should I shut it down pending repair? As it's only a month old, I'd prefer dealer did whatever fix (shim, new clamp, whatever) is required.

 

Thanks.

 

Bill

[al_roethlisberger]

Actually this has been noted but not in it's own specific thread before. I think Mike Stewart first posted the issue with his Rosso Corsa some months back, but I've read about it as well on other forums like Wildguzzi and on the MGCL list....

 

In fact I remember reading about one fella who got an early 2003 LeMans and not only was his front x-over loose like yours, but it was also banging against his alternator cover, and caused damage. As an aside, I think I recall he was in Nevada.

 

It's odd, although not totally surprising, that MG screwed this simple design point up How hard is it to make sure that the exhaust clamps can cinch down enough

 

It'll be interesting to follow this issue.... I don't currently know of any easy or official fix. I guess one could potentially cut the slot wider and really crank down on the flange, or have someone weld-up some material on the collar. Either way, not ideal

 

al

[Bill Hagan]

Actually this has been noted but not in it's own specific thread before.  I think Mike Stewart first posted the issue with his Rosso Corsa some months back, but I've read about it as well on other forums like Wildguzzi and on the MGCL list.... 

 

In fact I remember reading about one fella who got an early 2003 LeMans and not only was his front x-over loose like yours, but it was also banging against his alternator cover, and caused damage.  As an aside, I think I recall he was in Nevada.

 

It's odd, although not totally surprising, that MG screwed this simple design point up        How hard is it to make sure that the exhaust clamps can cinch down enough 

 

It'll be interesting to follow this issue....  I don't currently know of any easy or official fix.  I guess one could potentially cut the slot wider and really crank down on the flange, or have someone weld-up some material on the collar.  Either way, not ideal 

 

al

 

Thanks, Al. I posted something recently on wildguzzi, but didn't recall anything else. I regularly follow that, but "tuned out" V11S stuff "until I are one."

 

Anyway, my dealer called me today in response to my fax, and sounded puzzled. Not a good sign. There is--oddly enough to me--very little exhaust leak, notwithstanding the considerable play in the pipe: up, sideways, and around.

 

I'll let you know the outcome. Hopefully John Stoddard or someone else from MGNA will show up at the Ga. Guzzi meeting tomorrow night at the Vortex, and I can (gently) harrass him about it (tho if he lurks here, I've just blown it!).

 

I am a tyro wrench, but surely even I (or dealer) can come up with shim, etc., to fix.

 

Thanks again, Al, as I was a bit concerned at lack of responses. Always makes you worry when you are silhouetted on the ridge!

 

At risk of sounding like a 56 YO adolescent, I LOVE this motorcycle. Yippee!

 

Bill

[docc]

Welcome Bill! I've always enjoyed your wit and wisdom on the Wildgoose site. I was rather amazed to see you have added the Billabio to the stable. Enough of that mountain cruisin' - time to get down to some real carving!

[dlaing]

...and this looseness on both sides causes harmonic vibration, most noticeable when backing off throttle.

 

Glad to see you posting on this side of the fence

I am just curious as to how you know that the vibration is caused by the looseness of the clamps?

FWIW most of my vibration occurs under accelleration, not backing off on the throttle.

You might also check that your throttle bodies are properly seated on the manifolds and are tight and balanced.

Best of Luck,

[Bill Hagan]

...and this looseness on both sides causes harmonic vibration, most noticeable when backing off throttle.

 

Glad to see you posting on this side of the fence

I am just curious as to how you know that the vibration is caused by the looseness of the clamps?

FWIW most of my vibration occurs under accelleration, not backing off on the throttle.

You might also check that your throttle bodies are properly seated on the manifolds and are tight and balanced.

Best of Luck,

 

Howdy.

 

As for knowing source of vibration, I don't know squat, but think that is what is doing it.

 

I had heard/felt this for a bit. Could not isolate the source while mounted, even when stopped. In fact, I thought it was coming from back. And, as with you, most "vibration" of the classic Guzzi sort happens while heading up the tach, not down. But that is a pleasant thing, and I am quite used to it. This is more a resonating, high sound/sensation, and more like a loose hanger or clamp type thing.

 

So, while letting engine running on sidestand, I crouched and ran throttle up and down to midrange rpm.

 

A Ha! That's when I first saw the crossover pipe doing its dance. It is, as I said earlier, quite loose in the mount and (when cold!) can be moved to right and left, up and down, and all over within a narrow range. It stays in general place (as opposed to falling out) simply because it is too long. It is like an unsprung toilet-paper holder!

 

Now, it may be that something else is vibrating, too, but the noise appears to be from here and it sure isn't supposed be that way. I was most surprised that so little gas even seems to come out, given the "float."

 

Thanks again. Glad to have this forum. have learned lots by browsing.

 

Regards from Atlanta.

 

Bill

[jrt]

Well, that's pretty good evidence. Even if it's not the source of your vibration, it's bound to make a hell of a racket. I've been meaning to look on my sport, but I thought there was a tab from the crossover that bolted to the bottom of the frame or engine? I dunno. I keep forgetting to look.

Could you just put a spacer between the crossover and the headers (or mufflers) that you could clamp down on? That would fix it in place.

 

Cheers,

Jason

[Bill Hagan]

Thanks to all.

 

Went to Atlanta Triumph Ducati (& Moto Guzzi!) to show them (tho we had talked on phone about this). Michael Long, the head wrench, pulled the Ballabio in to work on it ... a nice and unexpected touch as they are swamped.

 

By loosening flange nuts and having someone bring the two header pipes a bit closer together while he tightened all the fasteners, he was able to reduce the "rock & roll" action of this crossover section.

 

[bTW, as I have confused at least one person, the "crossover" I am talking about here is not the below-the-sump H-pipe, but the new "equalizer" connector just below the headers and in front of the alternator cover.]

 

This fix is, however, a temp one. Michael thinks that this might not have happened with stock pipes, but the after-market carbon-fibre cans (and, more acurately, the H-pipe for those) forced the headers out a bit more than the stock ones. That gave the connector more room to do what it felt like, i.e., vibrate like a clarinet reed. He thinks he may have to send the H-pipe to a muffler shop so that it can induce a bit greater bend in the forward pipes.

 

No doubt it's my always-gullible nature, but it seemed that B'o actually ran better and sounded better on the way home. That, and a 30-YO babe looked at me at a light and gave a thumbs up. Thank God for dark visors and 3/4 length leather jackets.

 

Bill

[Dirtybill]

That, and a 30-YO babe looked at me at a light and gave a thumbs up. Thank God for dark visors and 3/4 length leather jackets.

 

Bill

 

 

Aren't Guzzis great?

 

2 yearish old blondes in one of those new T-Bird convertibles gave me the wave and one blew me a kiss while on the bike.

 

I too had a dark visor on, much to the laughter of my wife

[docc]

OK. I admit. I'm I bit in the dark on the "Ballabio' thing. At first i read it was a guy. A champion hill climber. Then I read it was an event. And even a place.

 

So what (who) (where) is b-LOB-io?

[Admin Jaap]

Ballabio is a small town close to Lecco/ Lake Como, just like and close to Mandello

Ballabio website

Here's a map: Ballabio

[docc]

Is there a famous hill climb or other motorcycle event held there?

 

Also, Jaap, I am curious. How far is it for you to ride to Mandello? My friends and I will soon take a sport-tour to a neighboring state. In three days we will travel perhaps one thousand miles (1600km). My average ride is about 100 miles (160 Km if my conversion is correct).

[Bill Hagan]

OK. I admit. I'm I bit in the dark on the "Ballabio' thing. At first i read it was a guy. A champion hill climber. Then I read it was an event. And even a place.

 

So what (who) (where) is b-LOB-io?    

What Jaap said re town. BTW, I have since confirmed that is pronounced as you say, but I first sent an email to the town's website. No one responded. Probably thought I was nuts!

 

As for event there, think so, but beyond MG advertising claims, I couldn't find anything.

 

You probably also know, docc, that the B'io is just another Sport variant, with the raised, wider bars; flyscreen; and colors choices being the differences. The Cafe Sport is same, but with Ohlins.

 

My Guzzis are redshirted this weekend, as Kathi is on a garden kick. Oh well, it's Cheaha and AMA races at Barbers next weekend, and likely the Kentucky rally after that.

 

So, where is this long trip you are going?

 

Regards from Ballabioland,

 

Bill

[docc]

Bill,

 

Headed to the Ozarks with a group of sreious sport-tourers I ride with every year. Last year the Sport coulcn't make it as it was 3 months in the sh pfor a cracked gearbox case. This year i've crashed it and just beginning to source replacements.

 

I am between you and Kentucky. Maybe you you stop in on the way home and say a few words over the propped up sport?

[Guest Le Man]

Hey Guys,

 

My '03 Le Mans has a floating front cross-over pipe also, has been that way since new. I don't think this is a problem because it doesn't float when hot.

 

I've got over 8,000 miles on this bike and have noticed a vibration sound only during warm up..must be that cross-over. I'll bet if you find a way to make this tight something will crack.

 

Mike