Calling UK police or law enforcement

[John in Leeds]

Some advice please.

 

My mate has installed a garage lift (his business) in a back street garage and has been given a cheque drawn on a closed account. That is fraud. Despite many communications both ways there seems to be no genuine intention to pay for the goods or work done.

 

His solicitor told him that a court could make a judgement but it would be likely to be ignored.

 

His local police advised that he should go and remove the lift from the premises and that is about all he could do.

 

I suspect if he does go and attempt this there may be a level of obstruction created by parked cars and one or two rough lads.

 

We can get a team together but would obviously prefer to avoid anyone ending up hurt.

 

 

Any suggestions that don't include revenge fantasies would be very welcome.

[luhbo]

I perfectly understand that you've been asking for a hint what could be done, but these revenge fantasies you mention are in most cases all one can try to overcome his anger. I feel sorry for your friend.

 

When I've been to the Borders some years ago a nice person told me not to call the police should I ever be in trouble. "Call the firemen" he told me, you call them and 3 minutes later at least 5 big and strong men pop up at your home. This does not help you now but at least it's an interesting story in this concern.

 

Hubert

[BRENTTODD]

I tell you what has worked for me a few times. Find out where the guys parents are and start calling them telling them there baby boy owes you money. Mom and Dad dont want to have a dead beat kid giving them a bad name. Somebody will find you some money for Ya. If that dosent work you have to hurt him or take something of his that worth more money like his wifes car(she gets real pissed over that money comes quick) Here in the US thats against the law but the police dont get to envolved to much because the guy owes you money. They veiw it as a repo it also helps if you know a few officers who will tell the guy to pay you. If all that fails pay some punk kid to go kick the shit out of the dude you wont get your money but you will fell better about the whole shitty deal.

 

Good luck and dont give up get your $$$$

Brent

[macguzzi]

Fit a new lock on the outside of his garage

[Guzzirider]

Letting thieving scumbags get away with it goes against the grain.

 

I know in certain legal situations you can seize possessions in distress for payment of debts- obviously something a legal person would need to consider, but if so maybe he could seize one of their own vehicles and hold it to ransom until payment was made.

 

Or how about a made-up letter from the manufacturer of the lift saying that there had been 2 recent fatal accidents caused by a faulty batch of lifts, and the lift was being recalled for urgent safety modifications, must not be used in any cirumstances and would need to be collected asap.

 

Failing that:

[DeBenGuzzi]

well where the heck is Martin Barret on this one, he's a bobbi somewhere in that rain filled fog and salt encrusted peice of land you call the UK.

if anyone has some ideas I bet he would.

 

"I see on the side of your gun is says replica, on the side of my gun it says Desert Eagle 5-0"

[John in Leeds]

Well gentlemen

 

We have a result.

 

 

After I had a word with these people yesterday it seemed as though they were going to play it out. Every excuse from the death of the proprietor's father on the M1 on Sunday to being given forged notes from the cash machine.

 

Today we got some friends together with the moving equipment from Harrogate, I staked out the place from 9.00am to see when they would open up. John and the boys came into the city via the local nick and told the police that we intended to go and remove the lift. They were given a crime number and told to ring 999 and give the number if things got out of control.

 

At 10.15 the garage was unlocked and a couple of the trolls went to work. I rang the boys to come on in and they arrived some 10 minutes later. (we needed the premises unlocked so that we could gain entry without an illegal break in). There were just enough of us 7 in total but I suppose that was just about a critical mass. Immediately we got 5 in the building carrying the required tools. There was on vehicle in the access and one vehicle (both taxis I think you know what I'm saying) in pieces on the lift. We put the wheels back on the vehicle and quickly pushed it outside. Two more trolls turned up including the owner. There was lots of requests to stop and accusations of damage (total bollocks!) but we were determined and started stripping the lift. Promises to pay came thick and fast and we nearly lost it when two of our group who should have stayed inside drifted out, fortunately the trolls did not have the sense to lock us out before the lads were back in with a flea in their ear. They kept asking us to stop but we were adamant and then some money appeared. I started the count telling the lads only to stop when all the money owed was in my hand. Typical of taxis it came in 20s 10s and 2 pound coins but eventually it totted up. John was still all for taking it out but we talked him round and bought the parts back and roughly assembled the major pieces.

 

And so we left with the cash in hand and John still raining down abuse on the trolls. Came round to my place for a breakfast and a wind down.

 

Result!!! :bier:

 

 

Lessons learned -

 

always get the cash from people you don't know

 

if you have to do some thing about it it pays to have some good mates

 

check out the lie of the land so you can be sure how to get in and out and have no suprises

 

try to work within the law don't give the trolls excuses

 

ensure you have critical mass - with enough people who know what they are doing even without experience you can win

 

this is a very stressful exercise

 

 

Thanks guys for your comments and advice - bless

[Guzzirider]

Glad you got a result John!

 

Ok course if you had any suspicion that the people running it were not paying their full amount of tax, or maybe claiming benefits at the same time as working as a taxi driver, then it would be your duty as a citizen to ring the appropriate hotlines.

[Martin Barrett]

Sorry I'm a bit late to the party.

 

Glad your solution worked out. Whilst that is an option I would have mentioned it is fraught with pit falls, risk of criminal allegations made against you eg - Violence to secure entry for one.

 

The return of supplied goods will basically be a civil matter and you may ultimately need a court order to enforce it. Always helps to have something on the bill of sale that items remain suppliers property until paid for in full. From there it's mainly a case of bluff who can convince they've the strongest case and will to enforce it - the risk of throwing good money after bad.

 

There is a case stated precedent for a Garage having done work on a car can retain the vehicle until paid for, if the owner then removes it they are guilty of theft of their own vehicle.

 

The police aren't primarily interested in you getting your property back. They're there to prevent breaches of the peace and then will look at the prosecution of offenders (though this should come third - preservation of life; protection of property; pursuit of offenders) There are no Home Office statistic to return for property protected.

 

If you go to the police and tell them - That you supplied goods and they were paid with a cheque against a closed account and that they knew that at the time of writing the cheque and this was therefore deliberate and fraudulent under section 2 of the Fraud Act 2006 - You may have to spell it out depends on who you get at the call handling centre !!! The police are duty bound to record ( National Crime Recording Standards) and investigate your complaint of crime, some forces may screen out some complaints for various reasons eg not in public interest ie property returned etc, but in your case there is a named offender and a relatively easy "sanctioned Home Office detection"

 

In the bad old days the police would have probably dismissed this as an unsatisfactory business transaction and left it for you to deal civilly. But now they would have to take some action, but be prepared to give up some of your time initial complaint statement and that it might go to court and be required to attend to give your evidence in person.

 

Disclaimer- this is just how I see it, and is my personal opinion not that of any Police force - As always seek professional legal advice - that way you've got somebody to sue

[BRENTTODD]

Glad to hear you got your money Jhon. It goes to show if you dont give up the money will show up.

 

Great job

brent

[John in Leeds]

Sorry I'm a bit late to the party.

 

Glad your solution worked out. Whilst that is an option I would have mentioned it is fraught with pit falls, risk of criminal allegations made against you eg - Violence to secure entry for one.

 

The return of supplied goods will basically be a civil matter and you may ultimately need a court order to enforce it. Always helps to have something on the bill of sale that items remain suppliers property until paid for in full. From there it's mainly a case of bluff who can convince they've the strongest case and will to enforce it - the risk of throwing good money after bad.

 

There is a case stated precedent for a Garage having done work on a car can retain the vehicle until paid for, if the owner then removes it they are guilty of theft of their own vehicle.

 

The police aren't primarily interested in you getting your property back. They're there to prevent breaches of the peace and then will look at the prosecution of offenders (though this should come third - preservation of life; protection of property; pursuit of offenders) There are no Home Office statistic to return for property protected.

 

If you go to the police and tell them - That you supplied goods and they were paid with a cheque against a closed account and that they knew that at the time of writing the cheque and this was therefore deliberate and fraudulent under section 2 of the Fraud Act 2006 - You may have to spell it out depends on who you get at the call handling centre !!! The police are duty bound to record ( National Crime Recording Standards) and investigate your complaint of crime, some forces may screen out some complaints for various reasons eg not in public interest ie property returned etc, but in your case there is a named offender and a relatively easy "sanctioned Home Office detection"

 

In the bad old days the police would have probably dismissed this as an unsatisfactory business transaction and left it for you to deal civilly. But now they would have to take some action, but be prepared to give up some of your time initial complaint statement and that it might go to court and be required to attend to give your evidence in person.

 

Disclaimer- this is just how I see it, and is my personal opinion not that of any Police force - As always seek professional legal advice - that way you've got somebody to sue

 

Thanks for that Martin, just to update, a complaint has been made of damage to a vehicle. No evidence has been presented but John was arrested and then released 2 hours later. I was not able to hear his interview but he said that the police were very sympathetic and were looking to see if the accusation had been made maliciously. John feels that enough time has been wasted by this theiving so and so and really wants to get on with earning a living.

 

Personally I think that the police should take the clear fraud issue further. If there are further developments I'll post 'em.

 

<_>

[Murray]

I'm assuming you can put a Cavet sp? on one of their vehicles saying they owe you money this can be done in OZ OZ and UK legal systems been not too far apart. To be able to sell it they must pay to clear the cavet otherwise anyone who checks to see if there is money owning on the vehicle they will find there is. Obiously if they are scumbags make sure they actually own the vehicle in the first place. Its hasn't got the instant gratifaction of getting heavy but will annoy the crap out of them.

[luhbo]

Should Martin next time again be a bit late then perhaps a quick web search might help as well. To give you an example please watch this:

 

I Wish to Report a Burglary

 

Hubert

[John in Leeds]

Should Martin next time again be a bit late then perhaps a quick web search might help as well. To give you an example please watch this:

 

I Wish to Report a Burglary

 

Hubert

 

 

AAAAHHHHGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!