Non-Starting Le Mans

[Dr Gil]

What's with all these non-starting V11's all of a sudden?

 

The problem with my non-starting '02 Le Mans is different than GED01's non-starting Scura. My bike turns over just fine but will not fire. I cranked and cranked her yesterday and it did finally start and then seemed to run fine. I took it about 10 miles down the road, shut it down, ate lunch came back out and it did the same thing. Crank, crank, crank and then finally fires and runs fine.

 

While poking at it back in my garage I just happen to notice that I'm not getting the sound of the electric fuel pump when I turn the key. I turned it on and off several times then finally the fuel pump finally goes on...but it's erratic. After that the bike fired up.

 

This morning I went out to the garage to look into this further and got the same thing. The fuel pump is only firing up once in a while...and the bike won't start at all even when the pump does work and the pump sounds somehow different than it used to (that part may be my imagination). I pulled off the seat, checked the pump fuse, listened to the relays click and then removed the tank. Everything seems fine.

 

So I guess my question is how common is it for the Guzzi fuel pumps to go bad? Is it possible that it's something else? What should I be checking, looking for?

 

All help, suggestions and advice gratefully accepted.

[Ballabio Bertie]

Could it be the sidestand cutout? Does the pump start with the stand up?

[Dr Gil]

Could it be the sidestand cutout? Does the pump start with the stand up?

 

 

I don't believe it's related to the sidestand kill switch. The fuel pumps starts up (at is supposed to) when I turn the key...sidestand either up or down.

 

Nice one though...I hadn't even considered that as the potential problem.

 

---------------

 

I just checked the bike just now and the damn fuel pump is coming on (and sounding right) every time I turn the key (or course it has no fuel in it and I can't tell whether or not the bike would start).

[BRENTTODD]

Check the side stand switch if its not that then switch all the relays see if the old girl will start If so replace all the relays check the relay thread for the Good Ones

 

Good luck

Brent

[Dr Gil]

Check the side stand switch if its not that then switch all the relays see if the old girl will start If so replace all the relays check the relay thread for the Good Ones

 

Good luck

Brent

 

I'll do that Brent, it's an easy one to try. I did replace all my relay's with "the good ones" just last year...but still.

[docc]

I had to go back to the Bosch relays (from the 'better' GEI) to get my Sport to run.

 

I've now upgraded to 'best' Omron relays from Ryland.

[dlaing]

side stand and neutral switch are and either or requirement for starting.

If the bike side stand is up, OR the neutral switch is activated, it should be able to start.

If the bike side stand is up, AND the neutral switch is activated, AND either is malfunctioning, it should be able to start.

So, if the bike side stand is up, AND the neutral switch is activated, BOTH would have to fail in order for starting to fail.

Problem is more likely a relay, a connection, a fueling, or ignition problem.

[Dr Gil]

side stand and neutral switch are and either or requirement for starting.

If the bike side stand is up, OR the neutral switch is activated, it should be able to start.

If the bike side stand is up, AND the neutral switch is activated, AND either is malfunctioning, it should be able to start.

So, if the bike side stand is up, AND the neutral switch is activated, BOTH would have to fail in order for starting to fail.

Problem is more likely a relay, a connection, a fueling, or ignition problem.

 

That's helpful. It's nice to be able to eliminate some of the possibilities.

 

One question though, what do you mean by "ignition problem?" What sort of things might this encompass?

[BRENTTODD]

Brefore you drive yourself nuts what i would do and i am in auto repair not bike repair but one of the first thing I would do in my diag would be check to see if you have power to the fuel pump every time. If there is power to the pump every time you have pump issues. If you are not getting power every time to the pump the problem is not with the pump. I would start checking grounds and working my way around from there. Post how you make out somebody will lead you in the right direction if you get all jumbled up. Take your time think things through and that baby will start every time some times luck helps ya to.

 

 

Good luck keeps us posted

Brent

[dlaing]

That's helpful. It's nice to be able to eliminate some of the possibilities.

 

One question though, what do you mean by "ignition problem?" What sort of things might this encompass?

Could be bad coil, or electrical connections, or bad engine position sensor, or bad spark plugs, or ???.

If you have a timing light you can hook it up and see if you are getting spark consistently.

But I do think fueling issues seems more likely.

[Dr Gil]

Could be bad coil, or electrical connections, or bad engine position sensor, or bad spark plugs, or ???.

If you have a timing light you can hook it up and see if you are getting spark consistently.

But I do think fueling issues seems more likely.

 

Ah, I see where you're going with that and I agree, I'm pretty sure it's a fuel problem.

 

Thanks to all who've offered help.

 

I'm afraid I'm not going to be able to get back to bike for a few days...I'm off to Daytona to watch the Guzzi's run.

 

I'll sort it out upon return.

[windchill]

Mine, irritatingly, does exactly the same from time to time, and is only "cured" at the roadside by wiggling the fuel pump relay. I leave the top loose, and even unlock the seat in readiness now every time I fuel up!! I can usually get her to start by taking the top off the relay and "forcing" the fuel pump to pressure up: always carry a penknife!

[dlaing]

So I guess my question is how common is it for the Guzzi fuel pumps to go bad? Is it possible that it's something else? What should I be checking, looking for?

A few times on the forum I have suggested that symptoms like your's and what caused Docc to revert back to Bosch could be caused by a clogged fuel filter, but in every case the problem was resolved by something other than replacing the filter.

Still I think it is a possibility, mentioned not because it is most probable, but only because it is possible.

The GEI are excellent relays that have the highest resistive load amp rated NC contacts, but Ryland dissected them and determined that the Omrons that he provides are even better.

Replacing the relays, especially the the NO contact dependent Fuel pump and ECU relays with Ryland's Omrons will likely solve your problem and Windchill's!!!

But it is worth following Brenttodd's advice to check for voltage.

[raz]

The fuel pump is a positive replacement type with internal over pressure valve. It will not stop running if the filter is clogged.

 

A friend of mine had a clogged filter on a '97 Ducati. He had never replaced it. The sympthoms where fuel starving at high loads/rpm but no sympthoms at all at during startup or idle. He just couldn't overtake anything running faster than 70 km/h...

 

We could diagnose it on that 2 second fuel pump sound when turning on ignition though. It sounded like a slow ddaaaaaammmmnn instead of a happy yipeeeeeeee.

[dlaing]

The fuel pump is a positive replacement type with internal over pressure valve. It will not stop running if the filter is clogged.

 

A friend of mine had a clogged filter on a '97 Ducati. He had never replaced it. The sympthoms where fuel starving at high loads/rpm but no sympthoms at all at during startup or idle. He just couldn't overtake anything running faster than 70 km/h...

 

We could diagnose it on that 2 second fuel pump sound when turning on ignition though. It sounded like a slow ddaaaaaammmmnn instead of a happy yipeeeeeeee.

That is good to know there is an over pressure valve.

I was not thinking that the pump would stop working, but that it would put a burden on the relay or cause the 10A fuse to blow, which would cause the pump to not get electricity. But now that I think about it, the fuse should protect the relay, and if the relay is failing, a new one should be able to handle the 10A of current, assuming it can even get that high with a clogged filter.

And before the filter gets that clogged, the high loads/rpm should exhibit fuel starvation symptoms like you pal's Ducati.