Spanish Police deal with terrorist

[orangeokie]

Video

 

Good guys 1

Bad guys 0

 

[Guest ratchethack]

OUTSTANDING! The perp certainly won't ever pull that stunt again, and more'n likely hundreds more aspiring perps in Spain will be intimidated out of doing similar things after seeing this. That could never happen here in the USA today (wot the cop did, that is), but out o' respect for my Probation Officer, I hold all further comments in abeyance.

[orangeokie]

. . . but out o' respect for my Probation Officer, I hold all further comments in abeyance.

 

 

I take it you are now out on work release?

[dlaing]

Police gave this stunter the same treatment, but at higher speed.

If link does not work, try searchin' youtube for

Police Car vs. Bike mazdai

 

Or check this one out, in the USA ?Texas?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJXZJaGTAhc

Police car vs Motorbike lordrenoir

 

There are probably more videos out there of excessive force used against the lawless motorcyclist.

[Guzzirider]

I don't know why they simply did not shoot him- would have been much cleaner and precise, with less risk to the police- a car driver can get hurt if their vehicle is hit by a motorcycle.

[John in Leeds]

Video

 

Good guys 1

Bad guys 0

 

 

Interesting justifications - because of terrorism they are in no mood to deal sensibly with a drug addict. Couldn't they just beat the shit out him and save ruining a perfectly good bike. Now there are hospital bills, bike right off bill, car repair bill, who pays? The druggy certainly not.

 

Never mind it makes some people feel better.

[BRENTTODD]

I will give that dude 7.5 he really needs to keep his form through both flips. The landing was weak also he needs to commit to landing on his face it seemed half harted to me

[Guest ratchethack]

Interesting justifications - because of terrorism they are in no mood to deal sensibly with a drug addict. Couldn't they just beat the shit out him and save ruining a perfectly good bike. Now there are hospital bills, bike right off bill, car repair bill, who pays? The druggy certainly not.

 

Never mind it makes some people feel better.

Interesting analysis, John. It appears that chief among your concerns here is saving the motorcycle?!

 

How would you suggest the police "deal sensibly" with this particular drug addict in this particular situation?

 

Do you thnk that beating the sh!t out of the drug addict would be a "sensible" alternative? How would you suggest this be done, as he's escaping on a stolen motorcycle, considering his claim to be in possession of a live hand grenade?!

 

What's at stake here is hardly a question of making anyone "feel better". Seems to me it's the importance of effectively dealing with a deadly threat to life, limb, and property of innocent citizens that's relevant here, and the motorcycle is of no consequence whatsoever, relatively speaking. What's important here is security, safety, and policies that protect citizens and provide stable communities free from fear of the threat of violent crime.

 

CONSIDER:

 

Yes, by pulling out in front of the perp and sacrificing an unmarked police car, now there are hospital bills and insurance claims on the bike and the car. Could be the perp died at the scene. In this case, the costs of trial, hospital, and incarceration are obviated, and no one has to pay these costs. But assume the perp lived, whom we know to be a dangerous criminal who held up a bank, demanding money and drugs, and held hostages for 12 hours upon threat of death with a deadly weapon. As it happened, he was quickly apprehended, along with the cash and drugs at the scene of the crash, without exposing any others to the risk of the deadly threat he had previously well demonstrated he was capable of wielding. Now we have the costs of trial, hospital, and incarceration to cover, which are all passed on through insurance companies and the legal system to citizens.

 

Yes, insurance companies pick up the tab and pass the costs on to the insured. But by doing what the police did, aspiring perps and terrorists alike get the message that the cops are serious about dealing swiftly and with force to criminal activity. Countless additional crimes are prevented. Costs are minimized, and safety of citizens is ensured for the future. Countless lives and injuries are saved. Not only will this perp not be pulling the same stunt again, but all aspiring perps and terrorists alike get the message that the cops in the community are serious about dealing swiftly and with force in response to criminal activity. Typically, when the heat gets turned up on criminal activity, criminals move off to greener pastures to ply their trade, where law enforcement isn't as effective. When life gets tough on criminals everywhere, some actually turn to honest ways of making a living. Many more never get tempted to commit the first crime of what inevitably becomes a "career". In any case, by turning up the heat, countless additional crimes are always prevented.

 

The alternative to doing what the cops did, in what was described as an atmosphere of terrorist threats, would be opening up these kinds of alternate realities:

 

1. The perp escapes with the money from the bank. Insurance company pays, passes the cost on to the insured. More threats to innocent citizens continue not only from the perp, who continues to do what he was just handsomely rewarded for doing, but equally encouraged, MORE perps now commit MORE robberies, more hostage incidents occur, and more potential loss of life, limb, and property happens at the hands of more perps, encouraged by what they've witnessed. Insurance companies pay manyfold, pass the costs off on to the insured. Terrorist and criminal activity escalates in the community. Those who can afford to move to better communities, where an assurance of safety and security for their families is better established, and where insurance premiums are lower.

 

2. The perp, on the loose on the stolen motorcycle, is pursued in what quickly becomes a high speed chase. Much additional high risk to life, limb, and property to many additional innocent citizens. High expectation of additional crashes of vehicles of additional innocent victims at risk, with associated risks to life, limb, and property. Many additional hospital costs. Insurance companies all pay, pass costs on to the insured. Terrorist and criminal activity escalates in the community. People move out (see above).

 

Historically, a quick, effective manner of dealing with this kind of crime by nipping the escape of the perp in the bud by whatever means is at hand with the lowest threat to the community (as in this case) is extremely effective, has a far far lower cost to society, and provides a safer, more secure environment for citizens. There's no doubt about this. Anyone who knows the first thing about the history of law enforcement inherently understands this. It's been a well-proven historical fact of life since long before the Bronze Age.

 

What the cops did here was "sensible" by any sane mesaure. There's no "justification" beyond the obvious needed. I'll take what they did in this case every time in my own community over a deadly high-speed chase and the high risk of the perp getting away, -- or just about any other alternative I can think of, and it doesn't matter what I or anyone else "feel" about it -- it just makes good common sense. Give me a community where the criminals live in fear, and the honest citizens live in freedom from fear of violent crime every time. If there are citizens of Spain who weren't thankful for the way this was handled, they ought to be.

[Martin Barrett]

My take on the videos so far (applying a UK perspective)

 

Orangeoakie's - Dealing with an armed bank robber - serious offence - real risk to Police Officer and the Public to deal with 3- Options - Marksman takes him out as leaves the bank, Likely to be fatal , probable risk to Hostage in immediate vicinity as gets in to getaway vehicle

Try and negotiate a surrender - places hostages at risk.

Allow to leave - Then it's just how do you end the pursuit, In this example he is still close to the scene and therefore in a relatively sterile area (also not picked up too much speed) - easy to get resources into the right area. By using this method he is brought to a sudden stop and at least is likely to be stunned and not in position to draw his weapon or activate any device before he can be contained. He has no hostage with him so no human shield. Yes he might be killed or seriously injured but the odds are less than the marksman method.

 

The only issue is that whilst he is on the bike how much of a risk is he posing, and comes back to seriousness of offence and the risks of being to deal with him at another occasion. Seems a fair call to me. In the UK to use tactical contact or block the road is a Chief Officer authorisation. Given the time scale in this scenario one could have found him/her and obtained it if they had the morale fibre.

 

Dlaings videos - I couldn't see the first - but from the comments it appears he stuck his car deliberately in front of a stunting motorcycle - I might have seen it previously. If that's the case there's no way it's justified and officer should face charges. At best he's come out to indicate to stop , giving motorcycle an escape route and plenty of room to see him and stop. But I don't think that was the case

The second appears to be a deliberate attempt to ram the motorcycle. The Police car was making on blues so would appear to fall some where between the two previous scenarios. I doubt his actions could have been justified even if he'd been the escaping bank robber from the first.

 

Pursuits here are tightly controlled. If they meet the criteria and they are authorised it's always with the view of getting a tactical resolution - stinger or boxed in and brought to a halt. What normally happens is we have a decamp with or without crash before all the resources are in place. A best we will have air support and a dog on scene. Motorcycles are difficult because effectively there is no tactical resolution and ideally we will get the helicopter on scene and then back off and pick him up when he stops.

[John in Leeds]

Conceded Gentlemen