GuzziMoto Posted March 17, 2008 Posted March 17, 2008 If only Guzzi sold a bike like that. And even that was only a sportbike compared to other twins. Hence the battle of the twins monicker.
rocker59 Posted March 17, 2008 Posted March 17, 2008 They did. 1993 Daytona 1000. They followed that up with the Sport 1100 and Daytona RS, then the V11 Sport and V11 LeMans... Direct streetbike decendents of a championship-winning endurance racer... All built on Dr. John's "spine-frame" chassis...
GuzziMoto Posted March 17, 2008 Posted March 17, 2008 Sorry, but to me those are GT bikes. By those standards a B11 sport is a sportbike. Which is fine, but to me they aren't sportbikes. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy Guzzis. My favorite brand of bike. But a sportbike to me is a faster, more hard core bike then what Guzzi makes(like a GSXR or R-1).
rocker59 Posted March 17, 2008 Posted March 17, 2008 Sorry, but to me those are GT bikes. By those standards a B11 sport is a sportbike. Which is fine, but to me they aren't sportbikes.Don't get me wrong, I enjoy Guzzis. My favorite brand of bike. But a sportbike to me is a faster, more hard core bike then what Guzzi makes(like a GSXR or R-1). ...and the Breva's race-winning predecessor was which bike? The Breva is as much a sportsbike as a five year old BMW R-1150R. You can define the bikes anyway you want, but the fact is races were won in the 1970s and 1980s on Tontis and in the 1980s and 1990s on spine-frame bikes. If you count AHRMA, Guzzis are still winning races. Did you happen to notice the 2007 results at Daytona ??? Define "GT bike" for me. The funny thing about that term is that no one uses it. "sport", "sport-touring", "touring", "supersport", "superbike", "hypersport" are all used in print by manufacturers and journalists to define niches. "GT bike" isn't. And, there aren't set-in-stone divisions between each of these groups. The dividing lines are blurred and grey. Not black and white. An R1 is a Superbike, just like a Ducati 1098. There is a wide gulf between a superbike and whatever the current lineup of Guzzis should be called. There is plenty of room there for a sporting motorcycle based upon the MGS-01 chassis. Ducati's SportClassics are great sportsbikes. No, they're not competitive with R1s and Gixxers (and aren't intended to be), but they are still sportsbikes... It doesn't have to be a race bike to be a sport bike... <_>
Guzzirider Posted March 17, 2008 Posted March 17, 2008 Sorry, not trying to piss you off. But Guzzi hasn't been a force in racing since the 50's. No worries I think we basically making the same point- they used to make comparitively fast bikes (like the V7sport was in its day) but are unlikely ever too again.
GuzziMoto Posted March 17, 2008 Posted March 17, 2008 Rocker59, I think we just have a different idea of what a sportbike is. To me a Guzzi is a sporty bike, not a sportbike. A sportbike to me is something like an R-1 or R-6. To me a Ducati SportClassic is a retro bike. And while a Griso or Breva is not retro like that, I would have no trouble keeping up with a Ducati SportClassic on my Griso. For that matter, my Griso is just as quick as my wifes V11.
macguzzi Posted March 17, 2008 Posted March 17, 2008 No worries I think we basically making the same point- they used to make comparitively fast bikes (like the V7sport was in its day) but are unlikely ever too again. Even the V7 sport was'nt that sporty or quick in it's day time to stop dreaming boys Guzzi have NEVER made a sports bike, the majority of these bikes come out of Japan the others are made in relatively small numbers. I've owned a V7 sport that long I can't remember don't get me wrong this is still the greatest bike I have ever owned but no chance would it keep up with a Honda four
Paul Minnaert Posted March 17, 2008 Posted March 17, 2008 Who cares what it's called, but in the end Guzzi won't make an r1 or r6 / gsxr like bike, NEVER. I don't think anyone here wants them to do that. What people here are looking for, I think is a bike in the power/weight class of a r1200s bmw. But then better looking, with the italian touch.
rocker59 Posted March 17, 2008 Posted March 17, 2008 Who cares what it's called, but in the end Guzzi won't make an r1 or r6 / gsxr like bike, NEVER. I don't think anyone here wants them to do that. What people here are looking for, I think is a bike in the power/weight class of a r1200s bmw. But then better looking, with the italian touch. +1 If I wanted a class-leading superbike, I'd go pay $15k for a Ducati 1098. For a class-leading supersport, the no-brainer choice would be a $9k Triumph Daytona 675. What I want is an MGS-01 (undeniably a "sport bike") with any motor Guzzi would choose to drop into it. Because (like you, Paul) I occasionally like to do stuff like this with my sporty Guzzis:
GuzziMoto Posted March 17, 2008 Posted March 17, 2008 I'm with you guys on that. If Guzzi DID produce a street legal MGS 01(I mean really street legal, like you could finance it and insure it and it had a warrenty), I would buy one as well. Is it a sportbike, well maybe. But that would depend on the real specs, how much power and weight. I would hope for the answer to be yes, but knowing Guzzi I would not count on it. I would love to be able to buy a Guzzi that you could throw a number plate on and hit the track, but alas, Guzzi does not make bikes like that(yet). If you want to race a Guzzi you must do it the old fashioned way and build it yourself. I guess in the end that would be the difference between you and I on the subject. I think that a sportbike is a bike that you can race as it comes from the factory. But that is just a matter of opinion, and if yours is different that's ok. All that matters on this is that Guzzi is the right bike for the right rider. Viva Le Guzzi and all that crap.
Paul Minnaert Posted March 17, 2008 Posted March 17, 2008 you get the 1098 under the price in the usa, 15k$ is translated to euros so little money, I would maybe get one.
rocker59 Posted March 17, 2008 Posted March 17, 2008 you get the 1098 under the price in the usa, 15k$ is translated to euros so little money, I would maybe get one. 2008 MSRP = $15,995.00 (it was $14,995.00 for the 2007 model year.) http://www.ducati.com/od/ducatinorthameric...html?model=2391
Guest drknow Posted March 17, 2008 Posted March 17, 2008 Who cares what it's called, but in the end Guzzi won't make an r1 or r6 / gsxr like bike, NEVER. I don't think anyone here wants them to do that. What people here are looking for, I think is a bike in the power/weight class of a r1200s bmw. But then better looking, with the italian touch. This is a semantic argument. Some people feel that the term sportbike should only be given to a bike that has the performance characteristics of today's supersport and superbike platforms. If so, then none of us are actually asking for a Guzzi sportbike. We are also hoping that this is how the guzzi marketing dude is looking at the issue. As this would mean there still might be the chance for a new Daytona or MGS-01 strada or something. As for where I come down on the whole "guzzi, sportbike or not?" issue, I think Guzzi did make sportbikes, and can again, as there are sportbikes that aren't supersport or superbike race machines as narrowly defined by those racing classes. The BMWR1200S won a few Moto-ST races last year but can't complete with a supersport GSXR600. Does that mean it's not a sportbike? It is based on usage, especially off the track. Regardless, if you prefer a GT label, then fine. dk
rocker59 Posted March 17, 2008 Posted March 17, 2008 I'm with you guys on that. If Guzzi DID produce a street legal MGS 01(I mean really street legal, like you could finance it and insure it and it had a warrenty), I would buy one as well. Is it a sportbike, well maybe. But that would depend on the real specs, how much power and weight. I would hope for the answer to be yes, but knowing Guzzi I would not count on it. I would love to be able to buy a Guzzi that you could throw a number plate on and hit the track, but alas, Guzzi does not make bikes like that(yet). If you want to race a Guzzi you must do it the old fashioned way and build it yourself. I guess in the end that would be the difference between you and I on the subject. I think that a sportbike is a bike that you can race as it comes from the factory. But that is just a matter of opinion, and if yours is different that's ok. All that matters on this is that Guzzi is the right bike for the right rider. Viva Le Guzzi and all that crap. I'm just "egging you on" a bit here, but do these three low-powered motorcycles qualify as "sport bikes" in your book? Aprilia RS250 Cagiva Mito 500 MuZ Skorpion Sport Cup Replica
GuzziMoto Posted March 18, 2008 Posted March 18, 2008 That's fine. Egg all you want. But to me it's not just about power, but power to weight and handling. And I am only familiar with the Aprilia and the MuZ. The Aprilia to me is a sportbike and the MuZ is a sporty bike. But to me the BMW is a sporty bike as well. While it's true they have won a couple of races here and there, they typically only win when no real sportbikes(GSXR, R1/R6) are allowed to compete. And you typically have to mod them a fair bit to be competive. But I would love to see a 450 lb 120 hp Guzzi(not extreme numbers by sportbike standards, a built 600 can easily beat that). Hell, I'd settle for 100 rwhp.
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