Handling woes

[Guest Smudge]

Hi lad's 'n lass's thanks for the warm welcome on the intro forum.

I'm a little concerned about the handling on my V11 Sport '03, She tracks beautifully through right handers, responding well to mid corner bumps (stays on line) but doesn't fare so well on left handers she wants to sit up, so there's a degree of having to hold her down and any bumps cause her to pop up and move off line. I used to be able to dial this sort of behavior out of my chain drive bikes as I attributed it to alignment but short of a buggered frame I'm kinda stumped. When I picked her up all the suspension setting were max firmness and the steering damper was dangerously stiff, Backing everything off has helped quite a bit but I can't go any softer and have the damper approx 50%. She has good BT20's running about 34/38psi and I'm 75Kg.

Any ideas gratefully received.

[tripletom]

Hi Smudge, I had a LOT of issues on my Scura when I got it, there's my input on this thread, but I warn you it gets a bit long winded in places. Succinctly; I changed the old BT020's for Pilot Road 2CT's and run the recommended pressures (31F,34R), I set the sag up on the suspension and then removed the sterring damper as that was causing me a huge amount of grief. In 1800 hard ridden miles since I have had no tank slappers, no pant crapping moments, only a good handling bike. Hope that helps.

[FuelCooler]

Hi lad's 'n lass's thanks for the warm welcome on the intro forum.

I'm a little concerned about the handling on my V11 Sport '03, She tracks beautifully through right handers, responding well to mid corner bumps (stays on line) but doesn't fare so well on left handers she wants to sit up, so there's a degree of having to hold her down and any bumps cause her to pop up and move off line. I used to be able to dial this sort of behavior out of my chain drive bikes as I attributed it to alignment but short of a buggered frame I'm kinda stumped. When I picked her up all the suspension setting were max firmness and the steering damper was dangerously stiff, Backing everything off has helped quite a bit but I can't go any softer and have the damper approx 50%. She has good BT20's running about 34/38psi and I'm 75Kg.

Any ideas gratefully received.

 

Hi Smudge,

I will respond assuming you can do the work yourself, otherwise have a good shop check these things. Also I am assuming the bike hasn't been wrecked and rebuilt.

First I would make sure the steering damper mounts aren't binding up. Then I would unbolt the steering damper and stroke it back and forth to check if it operating smoothly (with no jerky-ness). Next while I had the damper off, I would lift the front wheel off the ground and check for smooth operation of the steering head bearings (especially just off center) and make sure they are properly adjusted. There is a good chance those bearings left the Guzzi factory with a minimal amount of grease, so now would be a good time dissassemble the steering stem to clean, check and re-lube them.

That should get you started.

Cheers,

Steve

[GuzziMoto]

I'm sure there are lots of things that could cause that sort of behavior, and the advice given already is good. I hope it helps. I too resorted to removing the damper to cure handling woes, but that is a personal choice that you need to think about before you make. Your bike is not handling normal and should be checked. In my experience I've only had one thing cause symptoms like you describe(that does not mean it's the only answer) and that was the front and rear wheels not being aligned with each other,ie bent frame. If the advice previously posted does not cure the issue the you may want to check or have checked the bike by a frame shop. hope it's not that but if it is , don't worry, it's not as bad as it sounds. There are good, reasonably priced shops that can make the frame straighter then it was when it left the factory. Hope it is a simpler problem though. Good luck.

[Guest ratchethack]

I'd check swingarm alignment first. Here's wot I've found to be a quick and accurate method:

 

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?...ost&p=46556

 

Good luck.

[Tom M]

In addition to what the others said I'll mention that you should check the swingarm mounting pins too. Mine were loose when I bought the bike used, I could feel the back wheel moving a bit when rolling off the throttle the rolling it on again. Handling got much better once I tightened the pins up. You should probably check all of your motor mounts and frame bolts. I found some surprisingly loose ones when I did. One of the motor mount bolts behind my fairing was about to fall out

[Baldini]

... She tracks beautifully through right handers, responding well to mid corner bumps (stays on line) but doesn't fare so well on left handers she wants to sit up, so there's a degree of having to hold her down and any bumps cause her to pop up and move off line.... She has good BT20's...

 

Maybe I'm missing something but....perhaps you just found the nature of the bike.

 

Cos crank runs down bike back to front, when it spins up it (along w/flywheel) exerts a force. On right handers on throttle it'll pull you down into the corner, on left handers it'll feel like it wants to sit up. Chop the throttle in a left hander & it'll fall in more, chop it in a right hander & it'll lift...I think i've got that the right way round but don't be too sure, I'm trying to picture it in my head....try it & see...carefully. Take off over a humpback bridge & it'll want to spin round the crank....well slightly...Big twin Guzzis have always been like this. It helps to settle the bike on an even throttle thru corners. Learn how the bike responds to throttle leant over & you can use to adjust your line - but Guzzis respond best to smooth riding.

 

There's no such thing as good BT20s!!! If you ride in a sporting manner get some better tyres at earliest oportunity!

 

And - welcome to Guzzis!

 

KB

[JFK]

Hi lad's 'n lass's thanks for the warm welcome on the intro forum.

I'm a little concerned about the handling on my V11 Sport '03, She tracks beautifully through right handers, responding well to mid corner bumps (stays on line) but doesn't fare so well on left handers she wants to sit up, so there's a degree of having to hold her down and any bumps cause her to pop up and move off line. I used to be able to dial this sort of behavior out of my chain drive bikes as I attributed it to alignment but short of a buggered frame I'm kinda stumped. When I picked her up all the suspension setting were max firmness and the steering damper was dangerously stiff, Backing everything off has helped quite a bit but I can't go any softer and have the damper approx 50%. She has good BT20's running about 34/38psi and I'm 75Kg.

Any ideas gratefully received.

 

Echoing some of these thoughts, I find Guzzis respond to the basics:

- Tyre pressure (try 36/42)

- Tyre wear and choice

- Suspension back to stock settings

- Back off the steering damper

- Corner on the throttle and keep it steady / wind on rather than changing tack

 

JFK

[rocker59]

36/42 is too much tire pressure !!!

 

32/35 or 33/36 are the recommendations in the manual and are better choices with sport or sport-touring tires.

 

I've put in lots of time on spine-frame bikes and the first thing I'd do is get rid of the 020 tires, then go from there.

 

I'm currently running BT-014 tires on my Sport 1100 and Z6 Roadtec on my Nero Corsa.

[Ouiji Veck]

What bike are you getting off of?

Probably need attention to suspension...especially if your over or around 200lbs.

There's volumes on this forum about it. Most of which posted by Mr. Ratchethack

the resident suspension expert. I don't know if his numbers are absolute gospel

but he'll get you understanding what's doing what and why. And the most important

lesson is suspension can be truly counter intuitive. If you can get near his numbers your definately

getting dialed in.

 

But mostly I believe I tend to agree with Baldini...this ain't you fathers Honda.

 

Steer with your ass and throttle and you'll be onto what a Guzzis about.

This is not a dive in and flick it on the apex bike (my opinion)

It's a set up the corner way early and carve a big arch bike.

Put some Armorall on the seat and get a cheek over the inside on the

corners and throttle right through them.

Crowd the tank too. I'm only 5' 9 so it all works well for me.

I may be full of hot air on this style but man I am having FUN and

corners are a blast. Lots of lines to choose from.

No chopping or cranking the throttle too...ya gotta be smooth on the throttle.

Aggressive sure... but smooth. You will be well rewarded.

[BrianG]

Maybe I'm missing something but....perhaps you just found the nature of the bike.

 

Cos crank runs down bike back to front, when it spins up it (along w/flywheel) exerts a force. On right handers on throttle it'll pull you down into the corner, on left handers it'll feel like it wants to sit up. Chop the throttle in a left hander & it'll fall in more, chop it in a right hander & it'll lift...I think i've got that the right way round but don't be too sure, I'm trying to picture it in my head....try it & see...carefully. Take off over a humpback bridge & it'll want to spin round the crank....well slightly...Big twin Guzzis have always been like this. It helps to settle the bike on an even throttle thru corners. Learn how the bike responds to throttle leant over & you can use to adjust your line - but Guzzis respond best to smooth riding.

 

There's no such thing as good BT20s!!! If you ride in a sporting manner get some better tyres at earliest oportunity!

 

And - welcome to Guzzis!

 

KB

 

 

+1.... if it's quite subtle......

[Steve G.]

+1.... if it's quite subtle......

 

 

+2! Smooth imputs avoiding the torqing over of the machine.

Steve

[waspp]

36/42 is too much tire pressure !!!

 

32/35 or 33/36 are the recommendations in the manual and are better choices with sport or sport-touring tires.

 

I've put in lots of time on spine-frame bikes and the first thing I'd do is get rid of the 020 tires, then go from there.

 

I'm currently running BT-014 tires on my Sport 1100 and Z6 Roadtec on my Nero Corsa.

 

 

Never use owners manual settings for tire pressure always use the settings provided on the tire itself. I usually run 35 fand r

[rocker59]

Never use owners manual settings for tire pressure always use the settings provided on the tire itself. I usually run 35 fand r

 

 

You guys can run all that pressure if you want to. I'll keep mine between 31 and 33 front and 33 and 36 rear depending on conditions.

 

I've seen lots of people crash sporty bikes running too much pressure in thier sport and sport-touring tires.

 

Maybe you guys who are running all this pressure are riding on flat straight roads, or something, but it's not safe at the track or in the mountains where I live...

 

FWIW, the PSI numbers on the sidewall are MAX LOAD for that particular tire, not "recommended" PSI for our Guzzis...

 

YMMV

 

 

 

 

 

 

From Bridgestone's webpage :

 

Tire Inflation

 

Always keep the motorcycle manufacturer's recommended air pressure in both tires. This is an important requirement for tire safety and mileage. Your motorcycle owner’s manual will tell you the recommended cold inflation pressure. On some motorcycles, the recommended front and rear tire pressures will be different. The pressures stamped on the sidewall of the tire are only for maximum loads. On some occasions, these pressures will also be the manufacturers recommended settings as well.

 

Riding on tires with too little air pressure is dangerous. The tires will build excessive heat. This can cause a sudden tire failure that could lead to serious personal injury or death.

 

Underinflation may also:

 

1. Damage the tire leading to tire failure

2. Adversely affect vehicle cornering

3. Reduce tire life

4. Increase fuel consumption

5. Fatigue cracking

 

Riding on tires with too much air can be dangerous. The tires are more likely to be cut, punctured, or broken by sudden impact. Serious personal injury or death could result. Do not exceed the pressure indicated on the tire sidewall. Consult your owner’s manual for the recommended inflation and other tire none.

[Guest Smudge]

Hey you guys, what a fantastic response thank you all so much.

Fantastic enthusiasm shown by you all. I have lots of things to tweak and test (plenty of excuses to ride) and there are those very sensible comments about it just being in the nature of Guzzi's. I knew Guzzi's had their own little ways, been readin about them for years but in the heat of the moment I wonder if I expected too much, something to think about.

I'm not really in a position to just bin the BT 20's so I'll have to ride around that problem for the moment, I'll tinker with the pressures though.

 

Many thanks