More pony's please

[jihem]

Its all about making the most of your bike- not chasing Jap power figures but reasonable mods which can deliver a bit more shove.

 

I went this way, ported the heads, threw in a Scola race camshaft, race exhausts, pod filters, PCIII it and dyno it, etc...and i wish i had put all that money into tuning the suspension to its best. I see now that there's no point having more power if the handling isn't 100%.

 

imho.

[Guest ratchethack]

Actually, we are under the same restrictions, we can just get away with more... at least for now

There is nothing wrong with improving power and making it run better. The trade off with most power producing modifications, especially mechanical ones is decreased durability. The question is how much do you want to trade? It is true that no matter what you do, you will not keep up with a Yamakawazuki 600 in a straight line.

I'm always looking to make things a little better. Not that elusive extra horse at 7000rpm on the dyno but more like better power in the meat of the powerband with no flat spots.

Exactafavorious.

 

We seem to have positions betweeen opposite ends of the old time-worn reality/fantasy spectrum here. At the loony end, we have the position (let's see if I can quote exactly from memory): "Bore it, stroke it, any way you want to!" -- In other words, The Sky's The Limit, and Throw Mama Caution From The Train , and The V11 Hayabusa Eater Lives! -- as consistently promoted by at least one of our Forum members.

 

At the other end of the spectrum, we have the likes o' Pete Roper, who has taken countless occasions on this Forum to explain from the wisdom, experience and credible authority of having personally wrenched on countless road-going Guzzis, as well as having built racing motors out o' these things since before Hector was a pup, in which he explains with unmistakable clarity -- not to mention imitable Roper style -- why the V11 donk is relatively close to its real-world output capacity in stock state of tune. This is often ignored, as is the next part: Pete ALSO explains the phenomenon of diminishing returns chasing output relative to the immeasurably superior return on investment in real-world value that may be achieved by optimizing suspension setup. . .

 

Has anyone here ever found any credible evidence of a 100 hp V11 happily accruing as many as 50K miles on the road (just to pick a number) without requiring at least one major rebuild along the way?

 

All I'm saying is that the tendency of those who seem inclined to be constantly on the "MORE POWER IS BETTER!" safari, lacking attention to the wisdom and experience of those kind enough to offer it, seem to be more often than not on a fool's errand relative to real-world payback on their efforts, and are bound to be disappointed at multiple levels (relatively speaking) in many cases.

 

-- But then, thus has it ever been, and thus will it ever be. . . [sigh] . . .

 

EDIT: Wot Jihem said above.

[Guzzirider]

I went this way, ported the heads, threw in a Scola race camshaft, race exhausts, pod filters, PCIII it and dyno it, etc...and i wish i had put all that money into tuning the suspension to its best. I see now that there's no point having more power if the handling isn't 100%.

 

imho.

 

Well I was already very happy with my suspension!!

 

And I am pleased with the minor engine mods I have made which have not broke the bank at all, and delivered a reasonable increase in mid range stonk.

[FuelCooler]

The original poster wanted to know if he could get more power without serious mods. The range of dyno read horse power in his this thread was about 75 to 90. There might be a couple horse power availible for him in the mapping. Maybe. Otherwise I think a camshaft change and / or head work needs to get done to make any more gains.

So far I haven't heard any requests (in this thread) for the 100 to 120 (or 140) that Ratchet has been talking about. And also no request for the 50,000 mile bullet proof reliability as put forth in Ratchets question. I also have not heard of ANYONE blowing up or needing to rebuild their street 1999 to 2005 V11 due to performance mods. Wanting or needing to lower the compression is not rebuilding!

Handling is great fun. I love great handling. Power is fun too, even too much power for your chassis. A few of us (not the majority by any means) don't mind the imbalance and some of us are even grown men who understand there are trade offs, high costs and points of diminishing returns in this hobby of ours.

I am of the belief that this form is not frequnted by the 16 to 25 year old crowd.

We are supposed to be having fun. Smacking someone down who wants to learn about or try to improve their bikes engine performance isn't too constructive. We are lucky for the limited performance industry support we do get.

FuelCooler

[rocker59]

I ride my Nero Corsa in the 4,000 to 6,000 rpm range 95% of the time.

 

Any mods that I make to the bike would need to give me something in that rpm range.

[Guest ratchethack]

We are supposed to be having fun. Smacking someone down who wants to learn about or try to improve their bikes engine performance isn't too constructive.

Hm. How does it happen that we seem to've wound up with so many on this board as sensitive as old women at a wet T-shirt contest? I don't believe I'm "smacking anyone down" here Steve. Not long ago here someone was slagging Pete Roper for the same thing, f'er cryin' out loud.

 

Now let's talk about wot's "constructive" for just a moment, shall we?

 

Of course Al asked about "less than serious" mods. I note that the usual progression amounts to "rapid mission creep", the usual progression of which as has been promoted here many times and followed by countless others.

 

Within the last several years I've become familiar with the owners of two V11 Sports, same model and year as my own, that were purchased and owned by riders within a chip-shot of where I live. One of the owners had been a one-time poster on this Forum. Both of these bikes had been modified (the same typical progressive list) for "performance". Both had also been ridden so little that they hadn't ever made it out of break-in before they were sold off. In each case, the riders found their bikes progressively less fun to ride relative to their other bikes. In other words, these 2 Guzzi's had been modified into unrideability and sold off at horrendous irrecoverable losses, after expenditures into the many thousands of dollars on modifications alone, with untold hundreds upon hundreds of dollars of "tuning" thrown in the same black hole.

 

Now I'm not saying that this is wot happens every time someone makes a modification to their Guzzi! Wot I am saying, is that there seems to be an insatiable compulsion with some people to modify these bikes until they wind up with wot is for the most part, a high-bling boat anchor, the final "resting" status of which, ground tackle on the bottom, seems to be such a sorry state that the owners have to resort to advertising to find the highest bidder of a relative few who're willing to put forth the effort to haul them up again from where they've been left to sleep with the fishes. In one of these cases, the owner told me every time he saw me that he really liked my Guzzi and wished his Guzzi ran as well as mine, and he regretted not being able to enjoy his the way I do, but he was done throwing good money after bad to get it to run better, and he wished he could go on the kinds of rides I enjoy the most, but never could. BTW, this was not a man without adequate connections. He was (and still is) President of a sizeable local moto club, and very well connected in the Guzzi community.

 

In neither of these cases did either owner (neither ever met the other to my knowledge) ever imagine in advance anything but sunshine and blue skies along with unlimited "fun" to accompany all that added horsepower -- which never materialized. Now I'm sincerely sorry to say this, but not inhibited about saying it either -- Seduced by bling and false expectations of happiness, they were, and these were fully grown men who should've known lots better, IMHO!

 

Neither of these 2 riders will ever own a Guzzi again. I heard one of them (and many of his fellow riders as well) refer to V11 Guzzis as "pieces of excrement" on the basis of how consistently unhappy that particular rider was as a result of all the "go faster" modifications and heaps of cost and effort with no return.

 

Now I ask you, Steve, is THIS wot you consider "constructive" use of a Guzzi? Is THIS wot you consider "having fun"?

 

Let's face it. It's pretty easy to get in over your head here unless you know pretty much exactly wot you're doing. Most haven't a clue, but of course many get seduced into believing they know it all and "the sky's the limit!", etc.

 

I submit to you that there are countless examples of this that never see the light of day. Not many ever hear the stories, because NO ONE who's followed this well-worn pattern (including either of the 2 ex-Guzzi owners I refer to here) has EVER been any too eager to talk about wot they've done. Of course the rider I refer to who was previously on this Forum would never be expected to tell his sad tale of self-inflicted woe here! These experiences tend to get buried often and deep for obvious reasons.

 

This is just me, for those who're interested -- and I believe many should be for their own benefit who apparently aren't -- I believe it's "constructive" to provide some counterpoint rooted in real world experiences to weigh in against some of the one-sided happy talk that tends to gush forth most o' time on the many-splendored virtues of "performance modifications" on V11's for "fun".

 

Better Guzzi ownership experiences for all!

 

-- Cdr. Hatchracket, Curmudgeon, Esq.

[GuzziMoto]

Dang Ratchet, man up and say your sorry, that you over reacted. The guy just asked about getting a little more out of his Guzzi and you said, among other blabberings,"I submit that if you're a graduate of the "more is better" school, (the school taught by modern advertising and Professors of never-satiated appetites and unrestricted, bottomless pit consumption), you've purchased the wrong motorcycle. "

If you are suggesting that someone needs to modify their Guzzi to make it have "issues" or that they would have been happy with their Guzzis if they had only left them stock... Well, I don't even have a politically correct response, how 'bout "that's craaazy talk".

I say mod your Guzzi to make it what the factory meant it to be. A wise man once said "the only reason they ship them assembled is to make sure you get all the parts".

[BRENTTODD]

Hey you know what, the guy has the money to play for gods sake play. If you dont have the wallet to play with the big dogs stay on the porch and stay quiet like good dog should. If i had the cash for all the go fast goodies they would be on my bike right now. This poor guy asked a simple question to get treated like a crazy person is wrong and against what we are all about in the forum. Reading this post has upset me now i have to go to my garage and mount my 300 rear tire and work on my plans for the twin turbo set up (200 rwhp) Yes there will be a gaint intercooler right out front. Yes it is bullet proof 1000000 mile or death witch ever come first. I am doing all this just to beat the punk kid up the street too.

[Guest ratchethack]

Dang Ratchet, man up and say your sorry, that you over reacted.

Um, don't you think it's YOU who's over-reacting just a tad, GMOTO?

 

But now that you mention it, I do b'lieve we have a very short list -- just started -- o' just who believes who's ox is being gored here, n'est-ce pas?

[BRENTTODD]

Um, don't you think it's YOU who's over-reacting just a tad, GMOTO?

 

But now that you mention it, I do b'lieve we have a very short list -- just started -- o' just who believes who's ox is being gored here, n'est-ce pas?

 

 

who wants to be a big ox. Remember size matters

[Guest frankdugo]

long time ago the old man told me"you can,t make this boat go faster -its limited by its hull". want to go faster get a new boat.they are just havin a good time rachet.

[ALdad]

Why is it that as soon as someone post something about getting more power out of their V11, there is always a few people who question the posters suitability to own a Guzzi? I love Guzzi's AND I love power. You can do both, and a well modded Guzzi will make good power. There is no shame in wanting more power then your Guzzi can with stock. For some of us it is part of the fun of owning a Guzzi, that you can dramatically improve on what the factory saw fit to give.

Thank you GuzziMoto. Why do some people think that because one is looking to optimize what one has, this means one is being unrealistic . If I wanted 100hp I would not have bought this bike.

[BRENTTODD]

Thank you GuzziMoto. Why do some people think that because one is looking to optimize what one has, this means one is being unrealistic . If I wanted 100hp I would not have bought this bike.

 

 

Thank you

[FuelCooler]

ALdad,

As you can see we have festive discussions some times! If you choose to go any further with increasing your engine performance I would choose those modifications carefully and with clear and reasonable goals in mind. And be forwarned you may or may not be happy with the trade offs.

You can always go back to stock. It may cost you, but stock is always an option.

In any case I would seek out a professional engine builder who is well respected, highly recommended, and stands behind his/her work. I can't stress enough the importance of knowing exactly what you want from your modifications, and the importance of stressing that with your engine builder before you start spending money. I have no builders to personally recommend, but I've read good things about Mike Rich and his head work.

And if you ever decide to put Fast By Ferracci 11:1 pistons in your bike and you don't like them, I WILL BUY THEM from you and give you my stockers!

Enjoy your bike. If you take it too far, back up, and enjoy it again. You can sell the parts you don't like! Maybe even to someone like me.

 

And Ratchet,

The examples you give would apply to most, if not all bikes.

There have been posters on this site who have simply bolted parts onto and into their bikes, remapped them, and have had success and happiness. It does happen, just like the failures happen.

It is a risk, and a pricey one sometimes. I will be going down this road when I can afford it. I will be happy to tell of my failures and successes. But it will have to wait until next winter.

Cheers,

Steve

[FuelCooler]

Thank you GuzziMoto. Why do some people think that because one is looking to optimize what one has, this means one is being unrealistic . If I wanted 100hp I would not have bought this bike.

 

Cool, I just read this. Sorry for the long post, it sounds like your bike and outlook match perfectly!

Cheers,

Steve