More pony's please

[dlaing]

I looked up more info on Guareschi's Guzzi.

It is allegedly 165HP!!! and if my terrible understanding of Italian is correct, 188kg

[Steve G.]

Listen here, I no sooner informed you that you bought the wrong motorcycle, than you informed ALDad that he bought the wrong motorcycle!!!!!

You sure do like to exaggerate. I don't think I am the one that came up with the term Hayabusa eater. I just said that by building up the V11 so that it performs like Guareshi's Battle of the Twins winner, it can keep up with a stock (2007) Hayabusa on some roads. Yes, the longevity of certain parts will be reduced when the V11 is putting out 140++HP using the BIG BORE kit. Yes the Hayabusa will have PEAK HP advantage at high RPM, but the Guzzi has more low end power. Ohlins and Penske suspension custom tuned to the rider could give an advantage to the Guzzi over the out of the box Hayabusa. FWIW they both weigh about the same, so shedding some weight on the V11 could also give it an advantage. The bevel box is about the only handicap a $50,000 V11 would face.

"Impossible" you said. Simply evidence of how small your world is. No wonder you think I am out there. But repeating your purply galactic crap is rude and unappreciated.

 

 

I'm uncomfortable to be involved in the 'morphing' of this thread, but had to clear things up for Mr. D.

I'm looking at the hp figures you are talking about out of a V11 engine. With those numbers, you can forget about mid range anything, everything will be at the top of the rev range with 140hp.

Oh, have you ridden a Busa? They are decidedly quite homly looking things, but their mid range is pretty frickin' strong, in fact not much off idle it's pulling pretty damn hard, and it's midrange, around 6k, makes your eyes water a bit.

Steve

[DeBenGuzzi]

I've been told the Hayabusa, once de-restricted and removed the torq retarder in the ECU slap on some nicer yosh pipes and the thing will rip your arms off at any RPM. These bikes are so powerful they tune them with a torq retarder so it doesn't wheelie too much on take off but probably to give a better level of control to the driver. I almost bought a hayabusa back when I knew nothing about street bikes, . . . then the 3k a year insurance for it changed my mind in a jiff.

[dlaing]

I'm uncomfortable to be involved in the 'morphing' of this thread, but had to clear things up for Mr. D.

I'm looking at the hp figures you are talking about out of a V11 engine. With those numbers, you can forget about mid range anything, everything will be at the top of the rev range with 140hp.

Oh, have you ridden a Busa? They are decidedly quite homly looking things, but their mid range is pretty frickin' strong, in fact not much off idle it's pulling pretty damn hard, and it's midrange, around 6k, makes your eyes water a bit.

Steve

I don't know if you can still call it a V11 engine after installing the Big

Bore kit, but take a look at the the dyno chart of their 125cv motor. No lack of low end and mid-range there.

Compared to the Hayabusa the Big Bore 125CV kit has better low and mid range.

The 140HP and 165HP engines probably have peakier cam or tuning, or maybe not????

I'd be completely content with the 125CV kit.

I overlayed the dynos from

http://www.bigbore.it/ and

http://www.sportrider.com/bikes/sportbike_.../photo_108.html

assuming that the HP would match.

Obviously different dynos, different days.

The real question is well the 165HP kit produce as much low end as the 125HP kit.

http://www.sportrider.com/bikes/sportbike_.../photo_108.html

Take a 2008 Hayabusa or a modified Hayabusa and all bets are off.

Also keep in mind the Hayabusa is regulated to I believe 185HP, while the Guzzi is not.

Your average rider on a Big Bore V11 on your average road will have no problem keeping up with the early stock Hayabusa, even with only the 125cv kit. Yah if you hit a wide open straight, the Hayabusa will take the lead, assuming you are crazy enough to go that fast on the street. But install the 165HP kit and then the Guzzi will pass the speed governed Hayabusa in the long straights.

For my level of expertise, on most roads, I will be only seconds ahead using 165HP rather than 125HP assuming all being equal. But the ultimate big bore guzzi will have other advantages over the Hayabusa such as Ohlins suspension and lighter weight.

An expert, or suicidal rider might be able to take greater advantage of that extra 40HP, but they can also take advantage of the superior brakes and suspension that the Guzzi could be equipped with.

Remember we are comparing a stock 2007 or earlier Hayabusa with what the V11 could be if money were no object.

We could hire Valentino Rossi's suspension expert, frame bracing, carbon fiber wheels, ceramic bearings, ceramic brakes, titanium rear sub-frame, titanium everywhere, lighter battery, lighter starter with gear reduction, etc. Weight of bike could be an easy 20 to maybe 50 lbs lighter than the Hayabusa.

The only draw back I see is the heavy bevel box .

[macguzzi]

If you want more pony's don't buy a Guzzi buy some jap multi

[Baldini]

...For my level of expertise, on most roads, I will be only seconds ahead using 165HP rather than 125HP...

 

it's a blessing that there are those who will save us from ourselves On most roads with any kind of twists, accessing the sort of outputs you're talking about in any competitive manner make it a quick road to casuality.

 

ALdad - I think, before your question was consumed in the deluge, you got your answer - it seems breathing; pipes & fueling, make a little more power & clean torque curve, after that; head work & cams...& diminishing returns. Before that tho, sorting chassis/suspension, tyres, & brakes make what power V11 has more usable more of the time. Depends if you want power for straightline only or useable speed thru twisties.

 

I see nothing wrong with anyone getting as much as they can out of their own bike.

 

KB

[Skeeve]

Also keep in mind the Hayabusa is regulated to I believe 185HP, while the Guzzi is not.

 

You're confusing HP w/ MPH here Dave, and the reason that the Guzzi isn't regulated to 185mph is it CANNOT GET THERE. In fact, no v11 can w/o blowing up the motor, since the stock gearing doesn't permit it and the alternative final drive options are, shall we say, "limited?"

 

You didn't think the LSR Guzzi fans are using older, pre-v11 models in their attempts just for kicks did you? Certain gearing options are available with the 5-speed trannies and final drives that aren't compatible w/ the 6-speeders to make them the preferred option.

 

And defeating the 186mph (300kph?) "restriction" [gentlemen's agreement btw govt. & industry in Japan] on the Hayabusa is pretty much a plug&play operation to defeat the transmission gear sensor & trick the Hayabusa into thinking it's still in 4th gear.

 

There's a pretty simple test to determine whether any of the heavily-modified & no-longer reliable Guzzis you've been pimping can compete w/ the Hayabusa & that's a comparison of their piston areas. Even blown out to 1225cc, the Guzzi twin-pot isn't going to match the piston area of the 1300cc Hayabusa four & likely couldn't even match it if the 'busa was sleeved down to 1000cc. That's just the secret of how multiplying cylinders can get you more power [you'll note I didn't say more usable or more enjoyable power! ]

 

Would I ride a Hayabusa? Sure: they're noted for being very tractable and even enjoyable sport-tourers, provided you make ergonomic adjustments. Would I want to do the regular maintenance required to support the continued well-being of the engine required to generate that power? Not at all! Yeah, the valve adjustments may not come up but every 25k miles, but what a pain when they do!

[dlaing]

You're confusing HP w/ MPH here Dave,

It was a typo. Sorry.

 

 

In fact, no v11 can w/o blowing up the motor, since the stock gearing doesn't permit it and the alternative final drive options are, shall we say, "limited?"

The 165HP BigBore V11 has enough power to go over 185MPH, but we would need some body work, and yes something would have to done about the gear ratio, and it would not be an inexpensive solution.

 

 

You didn't think the LSR Guzzi fans are using older, pre-v11 models in their attempts just for kicks did you? Certain gearing options are available with the 5-speed trannies and final drives that aren't compatible w/ the 6-speeders to make them the preferred option.

I thought it had something to do with CC classes. But otherwise, good point. Of course with enough money, one could find a solution to the gearing, right? I am addressing a question of what is possible, not what is wise economically.

 

And defeating the 186mph (300kph?) "restriction" [gentlemen's agreement btw govt. & industry in Japan] on the Hayabusa is pretty much a plug&play operation to defeat the transmission gear sensor & trick the Hayabusa into thinking it's still in 4th gear.

But then it is not stock.

 

There's a pretty simple test to determine whether any of the heavily-modified & no-longer reliable Guzzis you've been pimping can compete w/ the Hayabusa & that's a comparison of their piston areas. Even blown out to 1225cc, the Guzzi twin-pot isn't going to match the piston area of the 1300cc Hayabusa four & likely couldn't even match it if the 'busa was sleeved down to 1000cc. That's just the secret of how multiplying cylinders can get you more power [you'll note I didn't say more usable or more enjoyable power! ]

No I am not pimping Guzzis under 1225cc to keep up with the Hayabusa. What gave you that idea?

For the purpose of keeping up with stock Hayabusas on a Sunday afternoon on the roads of SoCal, I am pimping a 1420cc BigBore kit and a bunch of other mods to make it handle and brake better than a stock 2007 and earlier Hayabusa.

http://www.bigbore.it/index.html

In case you did read what I wrote earlier, they apparently have this kit designed to range in power from 125 to 165 HP.

 

Would I ride a Hayabusa? Sure: they're noted for being very tractable and even enjoyable sport-tourers, provided you make ergonomic adjustments. Would I want to do the regular maintenance required to support the continued well-being of the engine required to generate that power? Not at all! Yeah, the valve adjustments may not come up but every 25k miles, but what a pain when they do!

Adjusting Guzzi valves is such a joy, I do it twice as often as the manual recommends!!!

 

This hole argument was triggered by people saying hyperbike performance is impossible for our bikes. I say nonsense! With enough money it can be done, and essentially has been done on Guaro's Big Bore MGS01, and can be done with a little more weight on our bikes.

For my riding skills, if I were to ride between my house and Mount Palomar, I'd get there in about the same time. The Hayabusa might make better time on the straights, but elsewhere my properly sprung bike with better ergonomics will do better in the twisties, despite the boat anchor bevel drive. Maybe I would be sooo bored by the Hayabusa that I would push it faster, but that is the only reason it will get there faster.

A rider with better skills and more insanity could surely make better use of the Hayabusa and not be as bothered by the non-custom suspension of the Stock Hayabusa and arrive sooner, but that is not how I ride because I want to live.

If I did want to ride that fast, I would more seriously consider the BigBore kit and investing in track school.

[dlaing]

If you want more pony's don't buy a Guzzi buy some jap multi

Thanks for the advice, but no thanks.

Since I want more ponies I'll keep my Guzzi and open up the airbox (done), get a pair of Mistral mufflers (done), PCIII downloaded map (done), Roper windage tray(some say they think they get more power using one!!!), Stucchi crossover (still dreaming, although a exbox is really what I want, but I don't want to sacrifice ponies), Mike Rich porting, Carrillo Rods, Mike Rich pistons, balance the engine, and a custom map, and then I think I would be at the point of not wanting more ponies enough to consider further upgrades, but I would still dream of that Big Bore V11, not that I would know what to do with that much power...

[dlaing]

Does the 02 sport have more hp than the 00? I had my 00 sport dynotuned ,the results were 80.73 hp and 64.21 tq. The bike has an open air box, mistral cans, stucci cross and an early PC111. I reacently saw a posted result from a 02 sport with the same set up only the pipes and cross were by fast by feracci.The dyno was also done at fast by feracci, they got 90hp and 70 tq. What's up. Would the different brand products make thaaat much of a differance?I'm not quite up to speed yet on custom maps and such but if someone could fill me in. What am I missing ,and who in SoCal could get me the extra getty up!! Cheer! Ok I just found Daves Dyno gallery. I'm not too far off but I would like more with out serious mods. Any body got any ideas.It seems that the custom mapping done at fast feracci with similar set up's are getting higher #'s. Maybe there pipe or their tuner?? hmmm.

In SoCal there don't seem to be many options.

Todd Eagan is a good bet, as is Sean Fader at Guzzi Classics.

You should talk to Pierre (v1100Sporti) and Bill Ross (LSR pursuer on Tontis) about some of their mods.

The popular solution seems to be to send the heads to Mike Rich for porting.

If you get some Carrillo rods and Mike Rich pistons, I am sure Guzzi Classics could install them, get the engine balanced and the squish set. But those are pretty serious mods.

You have already exhausted all the cheap power upgrades.

The cheapest next upgrade could be to set the squish, and the next cheapest would be the Mike Rich Pistons, and then the next cheapest will be porting, but anything you do will send you back to the dyno for custom mapping.

Is there anyone in SoCal good at porting Guzzis???? If so, that could be an option, as sending them off to Mike Rich will leave you Guzziless for months.

Some go with aftermarket cams, but the the cam in the V11 spines is not bad and some simply move the power from low rpm to high rpm.

Or you can do what MacGuzzi suggests and get a Japanese 4 cylinder :lol:

[Greg Field]

Bill Ross had his heads done by a SoCal guy

[belfastguzzi]

Bill Ross had his heads done by a SoCal guy

Harumph – we've all had our heads done-in by SoCal guys!

[Greg Field]

Good point.

[dlaing]

Harumph – we've all had our heads done-in by SoCal guys!

Sorry.

[dlaing]

Bill Ross had his heads done by a SoCal guy

His website may give a clue who done it.

http://teamsubtlecrowbar.pitpilot.com/sponsors/index.htm

Maybe the performance induction guy????