Rear drive temperatures

[docc]

The South'n Spine Raiders (a non-entity that has no membership and meets for a non-rallye in May and includes you) meet near Knoxville, Tennessee in six weeks. There is always a lot of technical advice on everything from 'where to store bail money on your Sport' to 'why didn't Luigi put both your side stand springs on?' Tool rolls abound and I recall one fly fishing seminar.

 

This year I'd like to bring my nifty infra red temperature doo-dad and check rear drive temps after we've made a little distance on Saturday comparing to just what sort of yak fat each of us may be running. The results will be fraught with scientific vagary and questionable methods.

 

I think it will make for some interesting discussion, but is really a shameless 'technical' ruse to invite you to come ride and meet with other V11 Guzzisti.

 

South'n Spine Raiders

[Guest ratchethack]

Thanks for the open invite, Docc. Generally, any events requiring invitations, the likes o' which would wind up in my inbox tend to be pretty shabby affairs, ('nother words, if they'd invite the likes o' me, I sure as hell don't want to be there. ) but this one looks promising. Unfortunately, logistics are somewhat prohibitive for Yours Truly. But thanks anyway.

 

Interesting "hook" for the event. Judging by multiple before and after temp guestimates taken with palm and fingers, I'd venture a (rather remarkable) estimate at somewhere in the vicinity of a 20 F delta betwixt a bevel drive with dino and moly, or garden-variety synthetic vs. RedLine Shockproof Heavy -- after an equal number of hours on the road, anywhere beyond several.

 

Plenty o' raw material for "inspired" evaluation, not to mention launching a "live" oil thread over a few tankards o' South'n Panther Piss.

 

BAA, TJM & YMMV

[Guest frankdugo]

if i hit the lottery i,ll be there! thanks for the invite.

[docc]

Thanks for the open invite, Docc. Generally, any events requiring invitations, the likes o' which would wind up in my inbox tend to be pretty shabby affairs, ('nother words, if they'd invite the likes o' me, I sure as hell don't want to be there. ) but this one looks promising. Unfortunately, logistics are somewhat prohibitive for Yours Truly. But thanks anyway.

 

Interesting "hook" for the event. Judging by multiple before and after temp guestimates taken with palm and fingers, I'd venture a (rather remarkable) estimate at somewhere in the vicinity of a 20 F delta betwixt a bevel drive with dino and moly, or garden-variety synthetic vs. RedLine Shockproof Heavy -- after an equal number of hours on the road, anywhere beyond several.

 

Plenty o' raw material for "inspired" evaluation, not to mention launching a "live" oil thread over a few tankards o' South'n Panther Piss.

 

BAA, TJM & YMMV

 

 

Chancy predictions! Wot's that: by the 'seat of the fingers?'

 

I've done the same going about feeling of rear drives (aw, you quit that!) wondering if mine's running hot. Now, perhaps we'll learn a bit more. Last year there were about a dozen V11 to survey. This year: who knows? I can write you a note saying you must go east for an important scientific event. Just don't be surprised if the locks are changed when you get home. And, yes, that is your Road&Track collection on the lawn . . .

[docc]

I suppose it is no surprise for the data to be all over the map. Six bikes made the 100 mile run over the Cherohala into NC. After we had stopped just a few minutes I took readings on three Norges (two were two-up), an EV (two-up), a Sport 1100 and my 2000V11 Sport.

 

Three bikes were 117-118 degrees F. One of the Norge and the EV were 125-130 and Josh's Sport 1100 was 105.

 

Josh had recently changed oil to Redline lightweight and also added moly.

 

I don't know if a 25 or 30 degree range is significant, yet it was fun checking and it all looked very technical with the laser and all.

[Guest ratchethack]

I don't know if a 25 or 30 degree range is significant, yet it was fun checking and it all looked very technical with the laser and all.

INTERESTING, Docc!

 

Anyone's ego get wrapped around a driveshaft? And no brawls?!

 

Considering you evidently didn't get a comparo of garden-variety dino or synth with moly against Redline Heavy Shockproof (wot I'd be most interested in ), this looks pretty much like I'd expect. Riding two-up would seem to make quite a difference, eh? May I presume both the Norge and EV at 125-130 were two-up?

 

FWIW, it's hard to imagine (at least for Yours Truly) a 25-30F delta not being "significant"! Now wot d'you consider significant? How about consideration of the fact that energy converted to heat by friction in the bevel drive is not transferred into propulsion? How about the fact that energy being converted to heat by friction is in part due to the wearing of the gear faces? May we assume the bevel drives on the Norges were still being worn in?

 

Where's John Mickowski (Ryland) and Pete on this one?

 

Enquiring minds. . . (well, you know)

[Greg Field]

I work in an extremely overstuffed Guzzi shop, which means we push in and out 20-30 bikes a day to allow room for customers to enter. Many of them have CARCS. I can tell you from direct experience that anything with a CARC is an absolute pig to push around when the gear oil is cold and not much easier when the oil is warm. I would be surprised to find that CARCS didn't run 20 degrees C hotter.

[docc]

The hottest Norge (125 degrees) was two-up with 12000 miles. The Norge with 20000 (two-up) and the Norge ridden solo (4000 miles) were both 117-118 degrees

 

The Sport 1100 and the EV have the same bevel box (EV was two-up), but I'll have to ask the EV guy what he was running for oil. (Again, the Sport had fresh RL light with extra moly).

 

My Sport had the only V11 type box and was 118 using RL heavy with no extra moly.

 

I was hoping for the array of v11s we had the last couple years. I think we might have gotten more applicable data.

 

FWIW, I was relieved to have my temps in the average range and not in the hot bunch.

[dlaing]

I got back from a ride half an hour ago, read this post, went out and felt the temperature of the Shockproof heavy, and I must say that is well over 105F, but less than 160F.

From my experience as my wife's personal Barrista, heating her coffee to 160F and mine to 140F, the mug temperature at 140F is pretty close to the temperature of the rear drive after sitting in an ~80F garage for half an hour. Riding temp was about 70F.

[Guest ratchethack]

I can tell you from direct experience that anything with a CARC is an absolute pig to push around. . .

Hm. . .

 

This is frighteningly reminiscent of the personal philosophies of several militant feminists I've dealt with. . .

[Dan M]

I love this kind of info docc. The lowest temp means the least drag.

It would be interesting to compare before redline and after redline in the same bevel box. Too many variables otherwise. Comparing different designs, comparing different mileages, comparing aluminum with gear lube tested with an infrared gun to ceramic with coffee tested with a palm.

[dlaing]

Hm. . .

 

This is frighteningly reminiscent of the personal philosophies of several militant feminists I've dealt with. . .

I hope you did not tolerate them pushing you around!

You know it is your God given right to be a pig.

[mike wilson]

I love this kind of info docc. The lowest temp means the least drag.

 

Not necessarily. It might mean the most, or best, oil. Or the cleanest fins. Or the one with the best airflow over the drive box. Too many variables and, sadly, too small a sample to draw any reasonable conclusions.

[docc]

Too many variables and, sadly, too small a sample to draw any reasonable conclusions.

 

Heh, this is probably our only "reasonable conclusion." Although, the speculation and discussion is interesting.

 

It certainly looks as if adding a bit of moly to Redline Lightweight doesn't heat things up!

 

The 'hot' Norge was running Amsoil, but also had several of the lower body panels removed. Perhaps the Norge's pretty clothes flow more air over the bevel drive?

[Dan M]

Not necessarily. It might mean the most, or best, oil. Or the cleanest fins. Or the one with the best airflow over the drive box. Too many variables and, sadly, too small a sample to draw any reasonable conclusions.

 

That's why I'd like to see an apples to apples comparison. Less temp under the same conditions in the same bevel box means less friction. I suppose a lighter viscosity could mean less drag and higher temps though.