Where are the latest moto tire shootouts?!

[Guest ratchethack]

Gents! Two years ago I got ahold of two independent moto-rag competitive tire review evaluations, one by Motorrad the other by Moto Revue, both translated very well in English, which were published at about the same time, and in my estimation did as impartial, thorough, and non-biased a ranking of Sport and Sport-Touring tires as I'd come across in a long time. I'd posted the summary results of both of these reviews here at the time.

 

When I first became aware of these tests, they were both accessible on the Web direct from their original sources. I'd become convinced by reading both the entire in-depth background study write-ups in each case that the reviews were comprehensive, accurate, and about as honest as possible -- that is, for moto-journo reviews of this kind.

 

Now of course I'm aware that certain inherent biases are MORE THAN POSSIBLE to inject into these reviews! This is always a MAJOR concern when it comes to placing any faith in this kinda thing, and by all means best exercise all due caution. Cross-comparisons are always certainly in order, and caveat emptor!

 

But again, in both tire reviews mentioned (the tire ranking results of which I noted at the time correlated with each other to a very high degree), the credentials, impartiality, and applicability of the testing routines to real-world conditions of ROAD USE appeared to be AT LEAST of middling-grade quality, and possibly (even likely?) a great deal better than that!

 

Those evaluations are not only long gone from the Web now, they're out of date.

 

I've always believed it's important to stay up to date on tires, which I consider to be the #1 most important component of any moto, followed closely by suspension and then not so closely by brakes. The tire mfgr's seem to update models on a more aggressive frequency than ever these days.

 

So where are the most credible, latest World Class Sport-Touring tire comparo shootouts?! I've noticed for years that for some reason, they aren't maintained for long on the Web. Lately, my searches have drawn a complete blank. I can't even seem to find COPIES of them on any o' the usual moto boards.

 

Anybody know of any more recent high-quality, credible, Sport-Touring tire comparo's where "apparently" qualified test riders rank their top choices?

 

Enquiring minds. . . (well, you know).

[Dan M]

I haven't seen anything current. It is true tires are changing at a rapid clip. I'd like to see some comparison info on these dual compound or even more recent blended compound tires. Until then, we'll have to trust those that have already been proven. The good news is, what we've been using is not too shabby.

[Guest frankdugo]

right again rachet -tires numeruno- and very little said about them.after every formula race thats what the boys on the podium talk about.

[Guest ratchethack]

OK, I guess there aren't any decent Sport/Touring tire shootouts anymore.

 

Let the conspiracy theories fly whither they may.

 

Here's a lesser kinda alternative that might be helpful to those who're as interested as I am in keeping up.

 

There's no date on any of it, but I haven't seen this before at this site, so it can't be that old.

 

Since the reviewer, Dave, has for the most part an IDENTICAL read on (by far and away) my favorite Guzzi tire of all time, the Metz Z6, I couldn't resist posting his review on it in full (see below). Other tires favored by many on this Forum are similarly reviewed at the link (see list at bullets below).

 

Those interested won't want to miss CHOOSING THE RIGHT TIRE at the additional link below.

 

All very good stuff, IMHO.

 

Read 'em & Ride 'em.

 

CANYON CHASERS TIRE REVIEWS

 

SOURCE: Canyon Chasers Motorcycle Sport Touring

 

http://www.canyonchasers.net/reviews/#tir

 

• Continental Sport Attack - The Road Attacks sporty brother - are they as great as the sibling?

• Dunlop Qualifier - Not your grandpa's Dunlop SuperSport Tire, that's for darn sure.

• Michelin Pilot Power - Is it as good as everyone says it is? We'll be honest.

• Continental Road Attack - Sport touring tires - very well may be the finest tires we've ever run!

• Metzeler Sportec M1 and Roadtec Z6 tires - How can these german tires compete?

• Michelin Pilot Road - A tire for the real world

 

METZELER ROADTEC Z6

 

I’ve worn out so many MEZ4’s that I lost count (they always seemed to last about 6500 miles or so). So, when Metzeler announced the Roadtec Z6, the replacement of the Z4, and claimed the same mileage (target of 8000 miles) better traction, better wet traction and better handling, I skipped right past the Michelin Pilot Roads and ordered two sets of the Z6's for the S3 and Monster. Mike, after hearing me rave about the feel of the new Z6’s, ordered a set for his Daytona and has been very happy after running Pilot Sports and D208’s. Mileage is very subjective because of the huge number of variables. It’s based on road surface, motorcycle toque numbers and riding style, but if I get anywhere near 6000 miles from a sport-touring tire that I like better than that the competitions full-on sport tire, I’ll be completely content!

 

Already, I’ve pushed the Z6’s harder than I’ve pushed any tire in a long time and have been delighted. The tire has gripped the road heroically and improved both the S3 and the M9's handling markedly. Just like the M1’s on the little Hawk, the Z6’s improved my confidence and suspension compliance. Apparently Metzeler/Pirelli uses the most advanced tire technology, using lasers and balancing equipment to ensure that every tire that comes out of the shop meets their very strict standards. I have yet to have a M1 or a Z6 require even a .5 gram of weight to reach balance. They have all spun out perfect with no weight required [disclaimer]

 

I also find it fascinating that Michelin dropped their 45-degree belt technology on their new Pilot Power to adopt the 0-degree belt that Metzeler/Pirelli has been using for years. Additionally, Metzeler used computer aided modeling to develop the tread pattern based on the very specific roles of both the front and rear tire to form an optimum pattern to help ensure each tire does its specific task more efficiently where Michelin used an artistic interpretation of Samurai Sword cuts to develop their new tread pattern. However, Metzeler warns that you should NEVER run a Z6 rear without a Z6 front because they were designed to work together for water dissipation.

 

With tire technology developing so fast, today’s Sport-Touring tires are gripping better than super-sport tires of even five years ago. Add that to longer life (it gets old real fast changing tires more frequently than engine oil) and you have a great tire. While I haven’t tried the Pilot Roads, I did try the Macadam 100’s (the Pilot Roads predecessor) and based on the fact that I like the Z4’s so much better than the Michelins and the M1’s so much better than the Pilot Sports, I tried the Z6 and have been completely thrilled! Add the fact that I've never seen a Metzeler front tire run with proper air pressure cup and I think that Metzeler has hit another home run with what could be, in my opinion; the best tire money can buy!

 

However, after wearing out a few sets of these, we've discovered that the tread pattern on the rear Roadtec is deceptive. Because there is no pattern across the center of the tire, it makes it extremely difficult to know exactly when the tire is worn down. Because we tend to, sadly, wear out our tires in the center first, we've had two rear Roadtec's going from looking just great to throwing sparks from the metal belts within an alarmingly short amount of time! It should be said, that if you choose to run these tires, when the rear looks to have another 500 to 1000 miles of life left, it should be replaced. So problematic is this trait, that a few of us have opted to other tires where we can easily see how worn the tire actually is.

 

- BY DAVE

 

CHOOSING THE RIGHT TIRE

 

http://www.canyonchasers.net/shop/generic/tires.php

[raz]

I really appreciate my MEZ-6's too. I didn't know the Z6 rear depends on a Z6 front, lucky I got the front first

 

With tire technology developing so fast, today’s Sport-Touring tires are gripping better than super-sport tires of even five years ago

I learned yesterday, while watching MotoGP qualify heats, that they actually use "qual tires" that last ONE LAP. That is, after like FIVE THOUSAND METERS they are JUNK. For many of you that may be old news but anyway, christ all mighty, that is just plain sick

 

Or are they re-usable after cool down?

[Guest ratchethack]

I really appreciate my MEZ-6's too. I didn't know the Z6 I learned yesterday, while watching MotoGP qualify heats, that they actually use "qual tires" that last ONE LAP. That is, after like FIVE THOUSAND METERS they are JUNK. For many of you that may be old news but anyway, christ all mighty, that is just plain sick

 

Or are they re-usable after cool down?

Raz, qualifying tires are just a more extreme example of the same principles at work with RACE TIRES. Someone on here not long ago was singing the virtues of running DOT race tire "take-offs" on the road, which he'd indicated was not only his practice, but his preference, since he gets 'em (as I recall?) for "free", or at a nominal cost. Sure you can re-use old race tires that were designed for something completely different (let's be honest, shall we, and just say completely alien) to wot you're doing with 'em on the road -- but as Dave points out so well in the Canyon Chasers article linked above, Choosing the Right Tire, where he addresses this practice directly (distinguishing as he carefully does between RACE TIRES and DOT RACE TIRES) -- wot kind of ROAD performance can reasonably expected after their TRACK life has long since expired?!

 

ANSWER: According to Dave and many other moto journo types on this topic (a few o' which I've provided on these pages previously), not much.

 

I've seen many guys doing this, but you couldn't pay me enough to use 'em where I like to ride the most.

 

I find Canyon Chaser Dave's comments on this particularly informative:

Street riders will get a greater level of traction and more life out of a street tire that is designed to withstand hundreds of heat cycles and operate at a lower temperature. And in fact, most modern "sport-touring" tires will provide a better level of grip for 90% of all street riders than sportier counterparts. Only an elite few, and they are probably not reading this anyway, can use the full potential of a Michelin Pilot Power. But try not to get confused between Race Tires and DOT Race tires. DOT race tires are kinda like a hybrid. They are great for the rider who primarily does track days with the occasional street ride.

 

Some street riders feel that it is an advantage to buy "take-offs" from racers. Take-offs are the race compound tires (sometimes race slicks) a racer has used up. Rather than discard the tire, they sell them to street riders. Take-offs do a great job of impressing your friends by allowing them to assume you were able to thrash the outside edges of your tire with your amazing riding ability. But the reality is you may be riding on a tire that has plenty or tread left but is actually worn out or has very little grip left in it.

Now whilst we're all fortunate enough to live in wot I've been whinging on about like a mad thing for years as, The Golden Age of Moto Tires, why anyone would choose to ride on anything less than the very best available for the purpose to which moto tires are designed and produced today is beyond me.

 

But o' course, and as always, TJM, and somebody's M is always gonna V.

[Greg Field]

8,000 miles out of Z6s? Our customers are getting 4,000-5,600 miles on the Norges and Brevas. Plus, with that bare strip down the center, it's impossible to tell how much tread is really left. They look fine one day, and cords're showing the next. If you're leaving for a 2,000-mile long weekend and need to decide whether that rear tire has that much left, it's impossible to say. As a result of these "problems," I've stopped recommending them to customers. They do stick and handle well, though.

[Guest ratchethack]

8,000 miles out of Z6s? Our customers are getting 4,000-5,600 miles on the Norges and Brevas. Plus, with that bare strip down the center, it's impossible to tell how much tread is really left. They look fine one day, and cords're showing the next. If you're leaving for a 2,000-mile long weekend and need to decide whether that rear tire has that much left, it's impossible to say. As a result of these "problems," I've stopped recommending them to customers. They do stick and handle well, though.

Yep. Getting a read on how much is left at the end of a Z6 rear tire is a challenge without center tread grooves, alright. No Q about it. But by my experience this is a small trade-off, and one easily overcome with careful observation of the progressive wear on the first one, then much more easily read the next time around. It helps to have a used one off a wheel to inspect up close -- or at least it seemed to in my case. I've been getting 7500 miles out of Z6 rears, which is more than I've ever got out of any rear tire on any moto, having never been inclined to run dedicated long-range "pavement pounders", but rather much more inclined to go for tires more biased toward superior handling and grip, for back-country riding well "off the slab".

 

Hey Greg. A 2,000-mile long weekend is on the order of a pretty gruesome, extreme Iron-butt kinda long weekend in my book -- unless you wanna stretch it out to a 5 day weekend at 400 miles/day -- 8-hours on the road per day @ avg. 50 mph?! Assuming you're on the road for 24 hours that weekend, you'd have to average 83 mph to get that many miles on the clock.

 

There was a guy on one of the Forums a few years back running a steel-belted car tire on the rear for this kinda riding. IIRC, he was getting something like 40K miles on 'em. I'd consider it for this kinda riding -- If I were inclined to consider this kinda riding. Seems to me the fabulous mileage of a car tire on the rear would make for trade-offs the likes o' which I wouldn't want to discover the flipside of on a twisty mountain road without guard rails -- but that's just me.

 

And again, with tires, it always comes down to YMMV.

[Greg Field]

Well, I've ridden down to San Francisco one day and back the next. By the route I took, it was about 1,800 miles. That's nothing, though. My friend John Boettcher left work in Chicago at noon on Thursday and was in central Washiongton at the Deep Forest Campout on Friday night. He did that on a T3, and spent much of the trip on secondary roads, including Hwy. 12 over Lolo Pass. Last year, I rode the Billy Bob to Hyder, AK. We put on 1300-ish miles the first two days. We had to stay an extra day because of a breakdown and waiting on parts, but then rode home in 2 days. How do you tell if you have 2600 miles left on a Z6? It's a deal breaker for me, personally.

[raz]

I hope my Z6 lasts at least as good as my previous Z4 that I cowardly replaced before a long trip, after 11,340 km (7,000 miles). That Z4 would easily have made 8,000.

 

My current front Z6 has 2 mm thread at center after 9,000 km (5,500 miles). Looks like I'll be replacing it around 10,000 km (6,200 miles).

[Guest ratchethack]

Well, I've ridden down to San Francisco one day and back the next. By the route I took, it was about 1,800 miles. That's nothing, though. My friend John Boettcher left work in Chicago at noon on Thursday and was in central Washiongton at the Deep Forest Campout on Friday night. He did that on a T3, and spent much of the trip on secondary roads, including Hwy. 12 over Lolo Pass. Last year, I rode the Billy Bob to Hyder, AK. We put on 1300-ish miles the first two days. We had to stay an extra day because of a breakdown and waiting on parts, but then rode home in 2 days.

Egads, you weren't foolin' about the extreme Iron-butt thing, were you?!

 

As an ex-distance runner, once well accustomed to the stamina required for competing where the fun just begins after hitting "the wall", and "running through the pain" so repeatedly as to not notice the development of horrific tendonitis, and hip and knee joints failing in-process (all 100% drug-free), I b'lieve I possess enough of an appreciation for wot you describe not to be very interested in this kind of riding. Now I HATE taking pain-killers, because in my case they don't seem to work a-tall until I've taken enough to croak a horse, and at those (many multiple) dosages, I find the side-effects are worse than the pain itself.

 

Call me a wimp if you will, I'm just being honest and speaking from a well-developed understanding of the meaning of the word, "pain". But let's just say that if I were to attempt such a class of riding today, I'd likely need a full complement o' powerful pain killers, probably chewable, swallowable, and more'n likely injectable, all at the same time, and at up to quad normal doses on each -- both during, and for days after.

How do you tell if you have 2600 miles left on a Z6? It's a deal breaker for me, personally.

Understood, Greg. It's certainly a valid point, and you've concluded the same thing as Dave at Canyon Chasers. Pretty tough on a road trip of the kind you describe, alright. But for that kind of a trip, I wouldn't be using a Sport/Touring tire like the Z6 in the first place, having no use wotsoever on the slab for the grip and handling a Z6 provides. I'd be using a dedicated boiler-plate long-mile Touring tire (the Metz ME 88 Marathon comes to mind), and expecting considerably better mileage than the Z6 offers in the bargain.

 

BAA, TJM & YMMV

[rocker59]

Understood, Greg. You've concluded the same thing as Dave at Canyon Chasers. Pretty tough on a road trip of the kind you describe, alright. But for that kind of a trip, I wouldn't be using a Sport/Touring tire like the Z6 in the first place, having no use wotsoever on the salb for the grip and handling a Z6 provides. I'd be using a dedicated boiler-plate long-mile Touring tire (the Metz ME 88 Marathon comes to mind), and expecting considerably better mileage than the Z6 offers in the bargain.

 

BAA, TJM & YMMV

 

Have you run the Marathon on your V11?

 

The last time I took my LeMans on a long trip, 4500 miles, I left with a new set of Z6s. As you can imagine, they were well worn by the time I returned home.

 

I wouldn't mind trying a longer-lived tire on the LeMans since I tend to use it more for "touring" than for "sport"...

[Guest ratchethack]

Have you run the Marathon on your V11?

Nope. I've never done that kind of riding, and IMHO my Sport isn't particularly well-suited for it.

I wouldn't mind trying a longer-lived tire on the LeMans since I tend to use it more for "touring" than for "sport"...

Me either -- Maybe. My sense is that you and I are much more the rule than the exception kinds of V11 riders, Rocker. I'm wot I refer to as a dedicated (and thoroughly unapologetic) Road Geez.

 

Trouble is, in my case, it'd be likely to take too much "enthusiasm" out o' where I like to ride the most. I'd more'n likely very soon wish a set o' Marathons would wear out 10X faster, so's I could get back on Z6's.

[Greg Field]

Ratch:

 

I stay off freeways. On the trip to Hyder, we did maybe 30 miles of freeway each way. On the trip to SF, aabout 90 miles each way. Both the Eldo and V11 do not cause me that much pain. I do take aspirin before leaving and periodically along the way. This helps tremendously. The trick is to take roads that are so nice you don't want to stop. I never just ride to see how many miles I can endure.

 

I've not tried Marathons on the V11. I do have the bias versions of these on the Eldo, though. They wear like iron.

[rocker59]

Nope. I've never done that kind of riding, and IMHO my Sport is not particularly well-suited for it.

 

Me either -- Maybe. My sense is that you and I are much more the rule than the exception kinds of V11 riders, Rocker. I'm wot I refer to as a dedicated (and thoroughly unapolegetic) Road Geez.

 

Trouble is, in my case, it'd be likely to take too much "enthusiasm" out o' where I like to ride the most. I'd more'n likely very soon wish a set o' Marathons would wear out 10X faster, so's I could get back on Z6's.

 

I bought the Nero Corsa not really knowing how I'd ride it. After putting the H+B bags on it (and my Quota breaking down), it turned into my "touring bike" in '06 when I rode with some friends on that 4500 mile trip to Utah.

 

There is always that trade-off with tires. I know it would handle GREAT with Pilot Power or BT-014 tires, but they'd only last 3000 miles. It's been doing great on the Z6. They handle great and have acceptable wear at around 6500 miles.

 

I'd hate to give up too much handling performance by going to Marathons because I do live in The Hills and the going gets very twisty here...

 

Compromises, compromises...