Scura - RAM kit - fitting issues

[Baldini]

HELP! :A few moths ago I purchased a RAM low intertia kit, the whole kit from Agostini, for my SCURA. Recently gave to a well trusted and relable workshop to install, but alas, it does not fit. The centre button for the pushrod is about 50mm too far away and the locator the wrong diameter for the push rod.

Agostini sent a new centre button but it is still 10mm too short to activate the clutch....

 

Tried to get another kit but I have been told that MG Cycles can no longer get the ful kit for the SCURA either.

Agostini "stongly" reccomeded that the mechanic just fit the supplied clutch kit, after "replacing the push rod centre". Apparently they heat the spring that carries the locating button just a bit and punch it out and loctite the new centtre to suit the SCURA push rod.

 

To cut a long story short, the Agostini supplied RAM kit sems to engange and dissengage the drive. NO TEST RIDE YET. The fluid in the system seems to take up a bit more and push rod seems to take up the pressure. We will see soon after the road test but all seems as per Agostini's advice execpt that the RAM KIT locating button needed changing and the RAM supplied sleeve gear did not fit the SCURA.

PeterD S251.

 

Above was posted while back. Did you resolve issue Peter?

 

I am having similar problem I think. I have Agostini supplied unit also for my Scura. I was wary cos of your post but parts looked OK (appeared v close to Scura unit), but when assembled, clutch cylinder does not activate clutch, just pumps out pushrod til it stops. It feels like pushrod is not long enough. Does anyone know - is Scura pushrod shorter than other V11's? It may be this kit is for a normal twin plate V11 & it would work with a pushrod for a normal twin plate V11?

 

Any insights greatly appreciated.

 

KB

[pete roper]

I am having similar problem I think. I have Agostini supplied unit also for my Scura. I was wary cos of your post but parts looked OK (appeared v close to Scura unit), but when assembled, clutch cylinder does not activate clutch, just pumps out pushrod til it stops. It feels like pushrod is not long enough. Does anyone know - is Scura pushrod shorter than other V11's? It may be this kit is for a normal twin plate V11 & it would work with a pushrod for a normal twin plate V11?

 

Any insights greatly appreciated.

 

KB

 

 

Keith, My mate John Viton recently had a similar problem with a Scura he did a clutch replacement on. I don't know for sure how the situation was eventually resolved. If you drop him a lineand tell him I sent you 'm sure he'll respond.

 

motocicolo bigpond.com

 

I supplied another RAM unit from Ago's to another bloke a while back and he too had a problem caused by the 8mm pushrod. I think that too was resolved simply by swapping the thrust button.

 

Pete

[Baldini]

...had a problem caused by the 8mm pushrod. I think that too was resolved simply by swapping the thrust button....

 

Thanks for response Pete. I've emailed your mate John.

 

8mm pushrod? - is a different diameter to others??

...& if it's a different diameter I can't swap pushrods w/o changing at cylinder end also? Bugger it.

 

So answer is to get Agostinis send me a different centre button, heat spring & swap buttons...

 

PeterD/S251 - is yours now sorted by that method?

 

Thanks,

 

KB

[mark.gilmore]

I had no such problem,my RAM fitted straight in.

[moscowphil]

Mine went straight in with no problems as well. very strange

[Baldini]

... had no such problem,my RAM fitted straight in.

 

 

...Mine went straight in with no problems as well...

 

Well weren't you the lucky ones....

 

After a lot of pissin about assembling & taking apart & measuring & reassembling I removed the centre button from the RAM diaphragm spring & replaced it with the button off the original Scura plate which has a shallower recess. Hey presto: working clutch...not road tested yet but it seems OK. Pushrod location was correct diameter but it just sat too deep & pushrod wasn't reaching it before it ran out of movement

 

KB

[belfastguzzi]

You got it working? Fantastic! Great news, I hope the road testing confirms that the job is done.

 

(Almost) never give up and there's usually an answer to be prised out, somehow, somewhere.

(Though sometimes you do just have to buy a new bike.)

[S251]

I have pictures of my RAM from Agostinis and the original SCURA for comarison.

 

The RAM is installed and working better than the original. Less vibration and more predictable take up.

1 RAM 2 SCURA original

[Baldini]

SNAP! I sent this pic to Agostinis & they say they are consulting RAM about the issue. Agostinis were helpful given that I've had the kit sat for a year but they really thought I must've put it together wrong. I wondered myself, but try as I did, I couldn't find a way to do that.

 

It's odd that some have this problem & some don't But we're only talking about a couple mm that make the difference. My guess is that someone got the centre buttons mixed up....

 

KB

[roberto]

Keith, was there any sign of fatigue cracks on the original flywheel? A dye-pen inspection may show something but I guess if any cracks were there they would soon propagate into something serious.

 

Good news is that it's four years since I fitted the Ram. It's still as noisy at idle as it ever was (apart from the first few hundred miles or so when it was silent???) but there's no sign of deterioration of any sort.

 

'later

[Baldini]

Roberto,

 

A chap I know who works with vintage cars sprayed some stuff on the flywheel then some other stuff which apparently was ferrous of some sort & then waved a magnet behind it - nothing appeared. Then he hung it in the air & tapped it, it rang pure & true & he said it wasn't cracked. I wasn't entirely convinced & one day I'm going to drop it in to an engineering shop to check again.

What convinced me that I wasn't going to put it back in was that it showed very slight linear marks at exactly the same places that yours & others showed up cracks - around the outside edges of the centre bolts & radiating outwards.

 

Agostinis have told me that Guzzi sourced some parts from RAM (spring plate has RAM imprint) but others (inc the flywheel) from elswhere. They acknowledge there's an issue with Scura clutches & say they have never seen anything similar in a RAM unit.

 

I'd be interested to see a Rosso Mandello clutch. RAM unit?

 

The Scura ring gear is noticeably lighter than the RAM.

 

KB

[roberto]

Keith,

 

The vintage car chap did a MPI or Magnetic Particle Inspection which relies on magnetizing the part being inspected e.g. steel. MPI does not work at all on non-ferrous materials at all, including most stainless steels. A dye penetrant test is the most efficient way to detect cracks on non-ferrous materials and works by spraying a penetrating dye over the part, cleaning the dye off with a solvent and then spraying a "developer" over the part. The dye that got into any cracks or small holes then leaches out into the developer showing where the cracks are (it can detect flaws less than a micron wide!). There are also fluorescent dye-pen methods but the basics are the same. Dye-pen is used by any manufacturing company making safety-critical parts like pressure vessels and I would hope that includes some motorcycle parts (con-rods, pistons, crankshafts, etc). I'm sure I saw Harris doing dye-pen on their old Magnum I/II frame welds many years ago - a beautifully ground finish at every join!

 

From your description it does sound like there were cracks in your flywheel, but a dye-pen test is needed to confirm it as you have done lots of miles on the Scura without failure (my flywheel disintegrated after only a few thousand miles). If you can confirm the indications are cracks then there may be more Guzzi single plate clutches that are slowly deteriorating and could fail at any time.

 

 

'later...

[Baldini]

Thanks Roberto. I will drop it in to have checked as you suggest. It is on 19 or 20k miles. I was surprised how well the friction plate seemed to be holding up - I dunno what the original depth was but it was only about half mil off the new RAM one - I heard they wore real quick

 

KB