V11 Ti Ecu 04- Micha method+others

[v11cafe]

Tried Micha method on myV11 04 Cat/lambda Cafe sport...and the results

were really good.Bike is running strong, no hiccups, smooth at idle...OK

(...although I still have to try it in city traffic, where engine temp rises and one uses a lot the 1000-3500 range...)

 

Step one - Set your valves to world settings

Done.....

Step two - Set your bleed screws to open 1 full turn

I did it but show that 1/2 turn, gave better results for my bike

(Last time I tuned the bike, I kept the 150mv base position and set the tps at 3.7-3.8),

so I suspect that 03+bikes with 15MIaw "alpha-N system" need 2.7-2.9 (..as the ti ecu instructions say).

Higher tps settings need smaller bypass screw opening.

Next time I'll set tps to 2.9 with a full turn open the bypass screws,and see what happens

Step three - Synch throttle bodies at just off idle (around 1800 rpm)

Done...(twinmax)Also checked it at 3000rpm and it was OK at max sensitivity.

Step four - Set idle to 1100 using left idle screw adjuster only

Done, alhtough the idle was already 99%ok, just touched the screw

Step five - Set TPS to 3.6 degrees

Test drove the bike, and since everything was OK, didn't check or correct the tps

Step six - Ensure idle trim is set to zero

I don't know if cat bikes have the screw for idle trim(..believe you can alter idle trim only with axone,

and a gas analyzer connected...)

 

My voltometer has gone to ...to hell , so as soon I replace it I will give fresh numbers about

base tps, idle tps etc.

[Dimitris]

Very nice! As soon as you feel it runs the way you want, maybe numbers do not play important role at the moment! Nevertheless don't neglect to check and share with us your current TPS degrees and the trim indication (which you can check through the VDST!)

[v11cafe]

Very nice! As soon as you feel it runs the way you want, maybe numbers do not play important role at the moment! Nevertheless don't neglect to check and share with us your current TPS degrees and the trim indication (which you can check through the VDST!)

I don't care much about numbers now, just want to make it run right...

I read my first post and I think this line is wrong

"Higher tps settings need smaller bypass screw opening"

I 'll try to figure that out, because the relation between adjustments is more important than the absolute numbers,

...and almost every Guzzi reacts a little different when you adjust it.

[waspp]

I never did go back and check my baseline tps but the bike seems to run great so ive just been riding it! Its due for an oil change soon so i'll see what my numbers turn out to be. I set mine at 532mv with one full tun out.

 

Hal

[dlaing]

"Higher tps settings need smaller bypass screw opening"

In order to maintain the same idle, that is correct, if you adjust the TPS at the left idle set screw. But if you adjust the TPS reading at the TPS there is no relationship.

[orangeokie]

Nice thread. Thanks for the info. :bier:

[v11cafe]

This week I have done a lot of progress, in trying various methods (forum method included), for tps tuning and throtllle balancing.

Every morning I drive to work with a different setting and look how it behaves on the road.

Bought new polymeter , and first thing I did was to check again base (0 angle) tps,

(with everything disconnected/switch on / key on/ engine off)

...it was way off... 220 mv,...and 533mv was the value given by the left idle screw(rod connected).

Wonder how a good throttle balance gave me satisfactory results, (not perfect but ok)

Imagine a Guzzi can work with almost anything, if it is balanced.

[v11cafe]

Read last week very carefully

forum method about setting the tps and balancing the bike

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=12204

Ian Johnston's page which is probably Micha's method, with personal remarks

http://www.obairlann.net/reaper/motorcycle...zi/balance.html

Guzzi manual V11 update 2003

plus other posts regarding the subject,

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=13188

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=12056

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=13385

plus.......

http://www.guzzitech.com/EVTuneup-Jeff_B.html

http://www.fuelinmoto.com.au/

...........................etc

 

Guzzi manual has many holes( ...and Ti kit instructions), in the way the steps are, and they take for granted that you are a mechanic ,

and you know how to adjust injection systems, so there are not details, just some numbers and basic steps,..many missing lines

 

Mr .Bean's "Micha method" , is a rough guide for experienced people to fast tune a bike, that nobody has played with the injection system,

and things are close to factory settings.

Don't forget that from 2003++++ bikes were leaving the Guzzi factory in a good state of tuning.

That's why mechanics don't like people, who alter everything, and then go for.... adjustments to a service-shop.

 

"Micha method" described by Ian Johnston, is a more analytical method for" how to balance throtlle bodies",

but not much info about setting the tps, just a remark about 500mv at idle ...very good part are the remarks

about right -hand idle screw/air bypass screws.I'll come to that later...

 

Forum method is the most analytical for a beginner (like me) in setting tps and balancing throtlle bodies,

but has some holes among the steps and gets a little confusing...from one step to another, but it's a good base to start with, although it does not take in account that after 2003 there were V11Euro 3 versions with cat/lambda( or not ...) ,

where tps numbers are different.

 

So I tried forum method, (...don't know how many times!!!!!), but taking into account info, numbers, hints, from all other sources,

so the knowledge is not mine,....only the thinking and reasoning.

 

First hole,...in forum method comes at fourth paragraph, where it says that you synchronize throttle bodies at idle, using the

syncronization rod adjustment.

I could buy that, but not when two paragraphs below, with the same rod you adjust part open throttle(2000-3000rpm).

So where is idle balance??? way off...only thing that saves balance at idle, is that between these two steps,there is another step

to balance again idle range using the bypass screws.

For experiment, balance idle with connecting rod,omit idle balance with bypass screws, then balance part throttle with connecting rod,

and check balance at idle,,,you can do it for the rest of your life and it would not be OK.

So balancing at idle using the connecting rod is not needed...unless it makes you feel happy...

 

Hole number two

In paragraph about setting the tps, tps value is set with engine running.

There is always difference in readings, between engine off/switch on/key on and engine running.

Forum method says 0.521+-.005, I don't doubt the number, but it should be clear that this is a cumulative value resulting from the previous steps

and it is affected.. again...by the ...next steps(of the method).

You can set the tps at idle, as long as you consciously know that Guzzi given tps numbers about V11 models,

are meant with switch on/key on/engine off, so if you set tps at idle(where value gets higher), the same value is lower than needed to tune the bike.

Setting tps with "switch on/key on/engine off" is the cause, idle tps is the result...so as long as you know what you are doing,

setting tps at idle with everything connected is a kind of shortcut if you want to check and balance a bike fast, that is already at least once

properly tuned, not recommended for a bike that the owner has played a lot with,....and not sure about 0 angle tps etc.

For experiment, with everything connected, engine running , turn screw of connecting rod, open close the bypasses,

and check at the voltmeter how the tps value changes...

 

So this is how I read Forum method

 

"Variation 1"

 

bold:words added by me

normal:exact phrases from forum's method, although some changes in order of steps.

 

 

IDLE TPS/THROTTLE BALANCING TUNING

For the following V11 Moto Guzzi motorcycles, made from 1999-2006

V11 Sport, Le Mans, Rosso Mandello, Scura, Tenni, Cafe Sport, Rosso Corsa, Nero Corsa, Naked Ballabio, and Coppa Italia.

 

If you suspect the valves need adjusting, do that first. Here is a link to some good instructions:

http://www.geocities.com/motoguzzi1064/Guz...alvesTorque.htm

 

Then make sure the TPS is calibrated to 150 mv at fully closed as follows:

 

Disconnect the synchronization rod at the ball joint on the right side (the side with the TPS sensor), back off the right throttle idle screw

using a 2.5mm hex key, and back off the "choke" cam (make sure the choke cable permits full retraction of the cam (it didn't on my bike).

 

For bikes after 2003, with no light switch take off the seat and remove the two fuses (5w/15w) for the lights.Other bikes, just turn the lights off.

 

Turn on the ignition key, but do not start the bike. Measure the voltage difference between the two outer wires of the TPS.

If the voltage is not 150 mV ±5 mV, then loosen the TPS clamp screws and gently rotate it as required. Be careful not to force it against the

TPS’s internal stop in the direction of reducing the voltage, which could damage it. Plus or minus 5 mV can be obtained with a little effort.

 

Open by hand and let gently snap back the right butterfly one-two times, to make sure that value remains ok.(150mv+-)

If you want keep it fully open by hand, and you see the WOT in volts.

Now, reconnect the synchronization rod, but keep the right throttle idle screw backed off to put the connecting rod in tension,

removing any backlash and adjust the left idle screw for a TPS reading of .521 volts. + - .005

(corresponding to 3.5 degrees physical opening, as read by the optional diagnostic software).

This accuracy can be obtained with a little effort.

(Some riders have been known to also subsequently physically readjust the TPS (not the idle screw) to lean or richen

the entire throttle range. However, loosening its screws and offsetting the TPS to a higher voltage, e.g. .539, will fool the ECU

into adding more fuel, but it will also fool the ignition timing table. See also the note at the bottom under “Options”)

 

Turn off the ignition key

 

Install fuses back, because one of them is lights plus tachometer...now you need it.

 

To do the next step, you will need to connect a vacuum manometer (e.g. mercury stick) to each of the two ports on the intake fittings

next to the cylinder head.

 

Close both air bypass screws (clockwise),start the engine, and check balance at 2000 - 3000 RPM ,make any fine correction needed

using the synchronization rod adjustment.

 

Next open both air bypass screws to obtain the idle RPM at 1100 to 1200 while maintaining balance.

( ...1 turn seems to do the trick, if you like shortcuts)

Air bypass screws should be open 1/2 turn or more. If not, back off the idle screw to reduce the TPS voltage reading in steps of 15 mv and open

the air bypass screws to compensate until they are opened 1/2 turn or more.

 

Disconnect the voltmeter and manometers. Replace the hose connecting the two intakes.

 

etc.............................................................................

...................................................................

 

 

Remarks

 

I tried forum method exactly as is written, and the bike worked almost ok with sporadic hiccup at 2000-3000rpm (almost steady throttle),

or some times at idle when it was hotter.I believe hiccup, mostly results from imbalance of throttle bodies at low range, because after 3000rpm

connecting rod has no lash , and the engine revs balanced if everything is ok.

 

I tried also, the "variation 1" method, described above, which is a little faster, and you avoid to overheat the bike, since tps is set

with engine off, using the same tps values, got rid of idle hiccup , but not really happy about low range.

Don't misunderstand me , bike goes ok and revs hard...but not perfect when you open /close throttle from idle-3000rpm.

 

So, the suspect is....

1/the lash of the connecting rod.Setting tps"switch on/key on/engine off"/or "engine running "with left screw although convenient, is not accurate,

just touch the rod and the value changes, open /close the throttle grip and value changes,...

2/no balance of throttle bodies at idle, with connecting rod disconnected,...as was the case for the old carburetor Guzzi with no connecting rod.

 

I'll come to that in detail, in another post about the missing lines of Guzzi Ti-kit instructions......

[v11cafe]

Guzzi Ti-kit instructions introduce a step, that there was not seen before in other V11 workshop manuals& updates...

balancing the cylinders with connection rod disconnected, but how and when????

Translation from Italian is really ...bad,...and some steps are not in the right order

for example

"Disconnect Vacuumeter"...and then "Tune, by bypass screws idle condition at 1100+-50rpm"

How???...using your imagination???

My V11 was one more time the guinea pig, in order to look for the missing lines of the Ti-kit instructions.

 

So now, this is how I read Ti-kit instructions

 

underlined:exact phrases from forum method

bold:words added by me

italic: ti-kit instructions

 

"Variation 2"

 

1/If you suspect the valves need adjusting, do that first. Here is a link to some good instructions:

http://www.geocities.com/motoguzzi1064/Guz...alvesTorque.htm

 

Then make sure the TPS is calibrated to 150 mv at fully closed as follows:

 

1/Disconnect the synchronization rod at the ball joint on the right side (the side with the TPS sensor), back off the right throttle idle screw

using a 2.5mm hex key, and back off the "choke" cam (make sure the choke cable permits full retraction of the cam.

2/For bikes after 2003, with no light switch take off the seat and remove the two fuses (5w/15w) for the lights.Other bikes, just turn the lights off.

 

3/Turn on the ignition key, but do not start the bike. Measure the voltage difference between the two outer wires of the TPS.

If the voltage is not 150 mV ±5 mV, then loosen the TPS clamp screws and gently rotate it as required. Be careful not to force it against the TPS’s internal stop in the direction of reducing the voltage, which could damage it.

Plus or minus 5 mV can be obtained with a little effort.

 

4/Open by hand and let gently snap back the right butterfly one-two times, to make sure that value remains ok.(150mv+-)

If you want keep it fully open by hand, and you see the WOT in volts.

 

5/Tune on right throttle body the throttle potentiometer till you reach 2.9+-0,1(465mv+-5mv) V11 MY 2002/2003 ++++

or 3,8+-0,1(550mv+-5mv) for V11MY 2001

Translation:Set tps value using the right idle throttle screw till you reach........

6/Open by hand and let gently snap back the right butterfly one-two times, to make sure that value remains ok.(..."x.xx" mv+-)

 

6/Turn off the ignition key

 

7/back off left idle screw, so it doesn't touch the butterfly

 

7/Install fuses back, because one of them is lights plus tachometer...now you need it.

8/To do the next step, you will need to connect a vacuum manometer (e.g. mercury stick) to each of the two ports on the intake fittings next to the cylinder head.

 

9/ turn on engine(engine temperature must reach minimum 50C)

 

10/Tune left cylinder equal to right one, with the tuning screw ( not the bypass one), with the connection stick disconnected.

Translation:......with left idle throttle screw........

 

11/Close both air bypass screws (clockwise). and check if cylinders remain balanced, if not correct by left idle throttle screw.

12/Connect the throttle connecting stick, then verify that out of idle condition(2000-3000rpm)

vacuum in the two cylinder is equal, and in case tune the stick screw to equalize it

Translation:..... check balance at 2000 - 3000 RPM ,make any fine correction needed

using the synchronization rod adjustment.

 

13/Tune, by bypass screws idle condition at 1100+-50rpm

 

Next steps are for people that have diagnostic software or an Axone, and CO analyzer(...have neither so no check on that...)

 

14/Tune, by Ecu trim, left cylinder CO at 4%value

 

15/Verify that right cylinder CO value is similar(+-0.2) to left one, otherwise tune it by right bypass screw

 

Remarks

This procedure gave me the best result in tuning the bike so far, and I plan to visit a Guzzi service,

to do steps 14/15 ,and see if there is more improvement.

Hicuup/ popping/baf/bam....are history ,and bike goes really good.

From step (9) , to avoid overheating you don't have to do all steps at once.

I used 2 minutes intervals on/off, depends if you have a fan or no ...etc

After step (11), I corrected the lenght of the connection rod, so it would connect on right butterfly ,

without altering the balance I had already done with rod disconnected.

Seemed logical to me, although I didn't check what happens if you connect it "as it is"

One thing leads to another, so experimenting and applying on this procedure, gave me some ideas

about Micha method...which to be true I didn't follow precisely the first time,...and I believe it is very close to this one

but with the added knowledge and shortcuts of an experienced tuner.

[dlaing]

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=12056

That thread

covers much of what you are bringing up.

We made many compromises for the sake of simplification.

The only serious problem I find with "the forum method" is there variations in bikes that don't seem to like the 150mV setting.

But I'll try to cover some of your criticisms and additions.

 

Ian Johnston's page which is probably Micha's method, with personal remarks

http://www.obairlann.net/reaper/motorcycle...zi/balance.html

snip

"Micha's method" described by Ian Johnston, is a more analytical method for" how to balance throtlle bodies",

but not much info about setting the tps, just a remark about 500mv at idle ...very good part are the remarks

about right -hand idle screw/air bypass screws.I'll come to that later...

Pretty similar to Micha method, but mV is a little lower, and he allows for some flexibility of the air screws.

The critical difference between the forum method and the other methods, is that the forum method does not recommend adjusting the potentiometer after the 150mV is set.

We may need to modify that more to compensate for variations of bikes, but I am not sure how best to handle that without much more complex instructions....and even then, I have not yet got it figured out.

Mr. Bean's version of the Micha method in effect compensates for the variation issue, but it could steer bikes not having the variation issue into a gambling situation, where it may or may not work well and results from tune up to tune up do not reproduce as well.

 

Forum's method is the most analytical for a beginner (like me) in setting tps and balancing throtlle bodies,

but has some holes among the steps and gets a little confusing...from one step to another, but it's a good base to start with, although it does not take in account that after 2003 there were V11Euro 3 versions with cat/lambda( or not ...) ,

where tps numbers are different.

I agree the forum method could be clearer in a few spots.

I thought we left most of the analytical stuff out of it. Thanks for the comment, as it is hard to see that it might be too analytical when we analyzed it for weeks.

It does take into account the 2003+ Euro 3 versions, by making a compromise at the target setting (521mV) and allowing adjustment to lower the mv to meet the correct air bypass and idle.

That was one of the areas that I think we could be clearer.

 

 

 

 

First hole,...in forum's method comes at fourth paragraph, where it says that you synchronize throttle bodies at idle, using the

syncronization rod adjustment.

I could buy that, but not when two paragraphs below, with the same rod you adjust part open throttle(2000-3000rpm).

So where is idle balance??? way off...only thing that saves balance at idle, is that between these two steps,there is another step

to balance again idle range using the bypass screws.

For experiment, balance idle with connecting rod,omit idle balance with bypass screws, then balance part throttle with connecting rod,

and check balance at idle,,,you can do it for the rest of your life and it would not be OK.

So balancing at idle using the connecting rod is not needed...unless it makes you feel happy...

The initial balancing at idle with connecting rod gets us close, and it sets the idle TPS. It is simply a starting point.

It is followed with air bypass screws to achieve idle rpm speed, while maintaining balance and ideal TPS reading.

At that point we NEARLY have perfection, but there is likely to be some variation at a higher RPM, so we set balance at higher RPM, which throws off idle RPM, so we reset idle balance with air screws...

The process repeats itself in a simple fashion until we are close enough to perfection.

It is nearly a flawless procedure. The only fault in the method is that the idle TPS reading can change during the process, but it should only change insignificantly. Ideally watching and adjusting the TPS during the process would be ideal, but it complicates the instructions.

 

 

 

Hole number two

In paragraph about setting the tps, tps value is set with engine running.

There is always difference in readings, between engine off/switch on/key on and engine running.

Forum's method says 0.521+-.005, I don't doubt the number, but it should be clear that this is a cumulative value resulting from the previous steps

and it is affected.. again...by the ...next steps(of the method).

You can set the tps at idle, as long as you consciously know that Guzzi given tps numbers about V11 models,

are meant with switch on/key on/engine off, so if you set tps at idle(where value gets higher), the same value is lower than needed to tune the bike.

Setting tps with "switch on/key on/engine off" is the cause, idle tps is the result...so as long as you know what you are doing,

setting tps at idle with everything connected is a kind of shortcut if you want to check and balance a bike fast, that is already at least once

properly tuned, not recommended for a bike that the owner has played a lot with,....and not sure about 0 angle tps etc.

For experiment, with everything connected, engine running , turn screw of connecting rod, open close the bypasses,

and check at the voltmeter how the tps value changes...

I need to experiment more with that variation in TPS reading at idle, from engine off to engine on.

I suspect the observed variations are due to imbalance. Our process balances the throttle bodies and, I SUSPECT, minimizes variation from engine off to engine on.

I believe that engine on more accurately reflects our goal, but when we wrote this, I don't think we experienced more than 20mV variation.

 

 

 

So this is how I read Forum's method

 

bold:words added by me

normal:exact phrases from forum's method, although some changes in order of steps.

 

 

IDLE TPS/THROTTLE BALANCING TUNING

For the following V11 Moto Guzzi motorcycles, made from 1999-2006

V11 Sport, Le Mans, Rosso Mandello, Scura, Tenni, Cafe Sport, Rosso Corsa, Nero Corsa, Naked Ballabio, and Coppa Italia.

 

If you suspect the valves need adjusting, do that first. Here is a link to some good instructions:

http://www.geocities.com/motoguzzi1064/Guz...alvesTorque.htm

 

Then make sure the TPS is calibrated to 150 mv at fully closed as follows:

 

Disconnect the synchronization rod at the ball joint on the right side (the side with the TPS sensor), back off the right throttle idle screw

using a 2.5mm hex key, and back off the "choke" cam (make sure the choke cable permits full retraction of the cam (it didn't on my bike).

 

For bikes after 2003, with no light switch take off the seat and remove the two fuses (5w/15w) for the lights.Other bikes, just turn the lights off.

You mean the fifth fuse 15A and sixth fuse 5A.

Not a bad idea. Having a naked bike I disconnect my headlight down near the lower triple clamp.

 

Turn on the ignition key, but do not start the bike. Measure the voltage difference between the two outer wires of the TPS.

If the voltage is not 150 mV ±5 mV, then loosen the TPS clamp screws and gently rotate it as required. Be careful not to force it against the

TPS’s internal stop in the direction of reducing the voltage, which could damage it. Plus or minus 5 mV can be obtained with a little effort.

 

Open by hand and let snap back the right butterfly one-two times, to make sure that value remains ok.(150mv+-)

If you want keep it fully open by hand, and you see the WOT in volts.

We discussed forcing the butterfly to seat should require gentle pressure, not snapping back.

But the idea of seating, reading, then unseating and seating again, re-taking the readings is a good one.

We just wanted to keep the instructions simple, and we don't want people damaging the throttle bodies or the butterfly valves.

Who knows? Maybe they are tougher than we imagined, but I would not advocate snapping back, without knowing for sure that it should not damage anything.

 

 

 

Now, reconnect the synchronization rod, but keep the right throttle idle screw backed off to put the connecting rod in tension,

removing any backlash and adjust the left idle screw for a TPS reading of .521 volts. + - .005

(corresponding to 3.5 degrees physical opening, as read by the optional diagnostic software).

This accuracy can be obtained with a little effort.

(Some riders have been known to also subsequently physically readjust the TPS (not the idle screw) to lean or richen

the entire throttle range. However, loosening its screws and offsetting the TPS to a higher voltage, e.g. .539, will fool the ECU

into adding more fuel, but it will also fool the ignition timing table. See also the note at the bottom under “Options”)

 

Turn off the ignition key

 

Install fuses back, because one of them is lights plus tachometer...now you need it.

 

To do the next step, you will need to connect a vacuum manometer (e.g. mercury stick) to each of the two ports on the intake fittings

next to the cylinder head.

 

Close both air bypass screws (clockwise),start the engine, and check balance at 2000 - 3000 RPM ,make any fine correction needed

using the synchronization rod adjustment.

 

Next open both air bypass screws to obtain the idle RPM at 1100 to 1200 while maintaining balance.

( ...1 turn seems to do the trick, if you like shortcuts)

Air bypass screws should be open 1/2 turn or more. If not, back off the idle screw to reduce the TPS voltage reading in steps of 15 mv and open

the air bypass screws to compensate until they are opened 1/2 turn or more.

 

Disconnect the voltmeter and manometers. Replace the hose connecting the two intakes.

 

etc.............................................................................

...................................................................

You edited out many of the words in the middle there. It makes it hard to follow and gives the false impression that the method has holes in it. Did you copy an earlier work in progress version of the method?

Forum method is here:

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=12204

 

 

Remarks

 

I tried forum's method exactly as is written, and the bike worked almost ok with sporadic hiccup at 2000-3000rpm (almost steady throttle),

or some times at idle when it was hotter.I believe hiccup, mostly results from imbalance of throttle bodies at low range, because after 3000rpm

connecting rod has no lash , and the engine revs balanced if everything is ok.

 

I tried also, the "alternate" method, described above, which is a little faster, and you avoid to overheat the bike, since tps is set

with engine off, using the same tps values, got rid of idle hiccup , but not really happy about low range.

Don't misunderstand me , bike goes ok and revs hard...but not perfect when you open /close throttle from idle-3000rpm.

 

So, the suspect is....

1/the lash of the connecting rod.Setting tps"switch on/key on/engine off"/or "engine running "with left screw although convenient, is not accurate,

just touch the rod and the value changes, open /close the throttle grip and value changes,...

2/no balance of throttle bodies at idle, with connecting rod disconnected,...as was the case for the old carburetor Guzzi with no connecting rod.

 

I'll come to that in detail, in another post about the missing lines of Guzzi Ti-kit instructions......

1/ I think you have that backwards, setting with right screw would create more of a lash inaccuracy.

2/ I don't understand the point you are trying to make.

[dlaing]

snip

I need a few hours more to respond to that.

Ryland is off on a wild goose chase, passing the baton (medallion) in the 2008 Guzzi Relay to the Rally.

When he comes back maybe he can give his thoughts.

[v11cafe]

First of all I should make clear that english/Us/Uk/Ca/Au/....etc, is not my native language, I could express myself

a lot better in Greek language,...but ,....then it would be all Greek to you....

I appreciate the fact that many people devoted so much time and thinking about tuning a V11 and the result was the forum method.

I owe an apology for my early criticism ( ..months ago), because it was not constructive .

Guzzi service and support is not strong in most places of the world,( with the exception of a few lucky ones who live next to Guzzi guru..s or responsible service shops)...maybe increaced production numbers will correct that.

For myself, I would like to take my bike to a Guzzi service shop, pay, ...and have a well tuned bike....(don't have so much free time).

Since that does not often happen, and I want to enjoy my V11,...forum is the best place to start looking for the ...missing instruction lines,.. and do the tuning myself.

However, I don't want anybody to follow what I say, just to give ground for discussion and if you agree...OK

your bike,..you are the tuner...same goes to me...my bike ....I am the tuner.

[v11cafe]

"snap back"...give me a better word or phrase and I'll edit the post.

Think you got the idea..("check" , that butterfly from full open, closes , and value "already set" remains the same )

[dlaing]

First of all I should make clear that english/Us/Uk/Ca/Au/....etc, is not my native language, I could express myself

a lot better in Greek language,...but ,....then it would be all Greek to you....

I appreciate the fact that many people devoted so much time and thinking about tuning a V11 and the result was the forum method.

I owe an apology for my early criticism ( ..months ago), because it was not constructive .

Guzzi service and support is not strong in most places of the world,( with the exception of a few lucky ones who live next to Guzzi guru..s or responsible service shops)...maybe increaced production numbers will correct that.

For myself, I would like to take my bike to a Guzzi service shop, pay, ...and have a well tuned bike....(don't have so much free time).

Since that does not often happen, and I want to enjoy my V11,...forum is the best place to start looking for the ...missing instruction lines,.. and do the tuning myself.

However, I don't want anybody to follow what I say, just to give ground for discussion and if you agree...OK

your bike,..you are the tuner...same goes to me...my bike ....I am the tuner.

Sounds good to me.

I like your detailed testing and thoughts on the matter.

It should help us create better instructions.

It is not easy, even for we, who speak "American".

[dlaing]

"snap back"...give me a better word or phrase and I'll edit the post.

Think you got the idea..("check" , that butterfly from full open, closes , and value "already set" remains the same )

I think if we say "gently snap back", that would be fine.

We do want to ensure it is completely closed.