Relay Problem?

[jsciullo]

A few nights ago I took my 2000 V11 Sport out for a ride and noticed that my tach quit working. I thought that maybe it was a blown fuse. Checked the fuse and it was OK but noticed that the fuse also runs the headlight and horn. These were not working either. A few miles down the road the tach started to work and I check that both headlights and horn work. This on again/off again thing happened all morning long. I noticed that when I came to a stop the tach, etc... would not work and then would eventually come on. I also noticed that it would work if I downshifted at a high RPM.

 

Im not an electrical person at all but if the fuse was bad wouldnt the tach/lights/horn not work at all? Would a flakey relay cause this. I installed GEI's last year that I purchased from Dan that fixed a starting issue. Would a realy go bad that quickly. In addition, I installed a new battery a couple of weeks ago before this problem started but it has been running well since. Any suggestions on where to start looking. The bike rides fine with the exception of this problem.

 

Thanks,

 

Jim in Dublin, OH

[Richard]

Have you tried swapping the relays around to see if the same problem persists? That would tell you if it were the relay....

[docc]

Moving the relays may be a good way to see if it makes an immediate difference.

 

Also, with the new battery, go back now and retighten the terminals.

[dlaing]

The relay could certainly be bad.

It should not go bad that easily, but once in a great while even GEIs and Omrons can go bad without an external cause.

The fact that you recently replaced your battery could indicate a charging problem,(look for excess of 14.7V when revving up the engine) or a need for better maintenance of wiring connections.

You might also consider the Eastern Beaver headlight wiring kit to take a load off of the relay, and give you a brighter headlight!!!

[gstallons]

Eastern Beaver? is there a website?

[dlaing]

http://easternbeaver.com/Main/Products/H4_Kits/h4_kits.html

Of course you can make your own, too, but they are well made.

Not sure which is the best kit.

All are far better than stock, and on the early V11 they take a big load off of Normally Open side of the starter relay.

Forum member Gary Cheek made a kit for me, and here is the before and after

[gstallons]

What part number did you use?

[dlaing]

What part number did you use?

Gary Cheek made mine.

If I were to do it again I would get the Eastern Beaver H4 Heavy Duty Single Headlight Relay Kits with Ceramic H4 Socket with 8inch leads so that relays are in bucket. Bikes with smaller headlights may want to put relays outside the bucket and get the 16inch leads for that.

The ceramic is only necessary if you want to run a bulb more powerful than the 60W-55W bulbs, but with 60W-55W bulbs will probably last 50 years while the standard kit might last 20 years, likely replacing relays along the way...

[Ryland3210]

The relay could certainly be bad.

It should not go bad that easily, but once in a great while even GEIs and Omrons can go bad without an external cause.

The fact that you recently replaced your battery could indicate a charging problem,(look for excess of 14.7V when revving up the engine) or a need for better maintenance of wiring connections.

You might also consider the Eastern Beaver headlight wiring kit to take a load off of the relay, and give you a brighter headlight!!!

 

Hi Dave,

Nothing lasts forever, but FYI no field failures of Omron's have been reported to date.

John

[dlaing]

Hi Dave,

Nothing lasts forever, but FYI no field failures of Omron's have been reported to date.

John

After reading your research, I am not surprised about the reliability of the Omron's so far.

I suspect most of the few GEI failures were related to other problems.

For example docc also reported burning at his 30A fuse.

Docc's and Quazimoto's both failed at the fuel pump relay. Could just be a coincidence...

Some say the charging system should not put out more than 13.8V, but many do.

Could that be a contributing factor to relay failure.

Maybe there are some other stories I forgot or missed?

[Ryland3210]

After reading your research, I am not surprised about the reliability of the Omron's so far.

I suspect most of the few GEI failures were related to other problems.

For example docc also reported burning at his 30A fuse.

Docc's and Quazimoto's both failed at the fuel pump relay. Could just be a coincidence...

Some say the charging system should not put out more than 13.8V, but many do.

Could that be a contributing factor to relay failure.

Maybe there are some other stories I forgot or missed?

 

Charging system voltages of 14.3 are not unusual under some conditions. 13.8 is OK when temperature is high, but a good regulator will temporarily jack the voltage up right after starting to drive a boost charge back into the battery.

 

Relays designed for automotive use should have no problem at 14.3 volts. As the coil heats up, its resistance increases, reducing current, so that has a self correcting effect.

 

It's possible that the fuel pump has no internal diode or other inductive kickback suppression protection. In that case, every time the pump turns off, it could be zapping the contacts. If the pump is a brush type DC motor or vibrating solenoid, every commutation causes an inductive kickback.

[docc]

My rear drive showed 130 degrees F today, the regulator fuse: 150 and the fuel system relay 140.

 

So maybe that's OK . . .

[dlaing]

Charging system voltages of 14.3 are not unusual under some conditions. 13.8 is OK when temperature is high, but a good regulator will temporarily jack the voltage up right after starting to drive a boost charge back into the battery.

 

Relays designed for automotive use should have no problem at 14.3 volts. As the coil heats up, its resistance increases, reducing current, so that has a self correcting effect.

 

It's possible that the fuel pump has no internal diode or other inductive kickback suppression protection. In that case, every time the pump turns off, it could be zapping the contacts. If the pump is a brush type DC motor or vibrating solenoid, every commutation causes an inductive kickback.

The regulator in the early V11 is supposed to let through 14.0 to 14.6V.

I recall Docc's is running lower than that, possibly indicating resistance between alternator and regulator or regulator and battery

The cooking of his fuse indicates resistance.

The failure of his GEI relay could be caused by a number of things, but I am guessing it is related to a combination of what cooked his fuse, and something about the fuel pump.

The 150 degree reading at the fuse probably indicates a little too much resistance, but maybe it is normal???

 

I would check the charging system out by the book.

Here are some excerpts, only slightly re-written, otherwise quotable:

CHECK THE VOLTAGE OUTPUTConnect an alternate 200 Volt capacity voltmeter to thetwo yellow cables.Start the motor and check that the voltage output is included within the values indicated

15VAC@1000RPM 40VAC@3000RPM 80VAC@6000RPM

REGULATORThe regulator has been calibrated in order to maintain thebattery voltage at a value between 14÷14.6 Volts.

The pilot light (illuminated when the engine is not running,but the key is inserted) will switch off when the generatorbegins to charge, (approx. 700 r.p.m.)

REGULATOR CHECKS Normal work-shop tools are generally insufficient for regulator checking, however, listed below are certain operations that can be carried out in order to detect regulators that are defective.

THE REGULATOR IS CERTAINLY DEFECTIVE IF: After having isolated it from the rest of the system short circuits can be detected between the earth (aluminum casing) and any of the output cables.

 

I like to check for voltage drop. I am not sure what is "normal" but check the voltage difference between battery and red line coming out of alternator. If significant (0.5V or more???), than narrow down where the resistance is by testing between battery and fuse, and between fuse and regulator.

 

Some other ideas regarding fuel pump:

I mentioned before a clogged fuel filter or line may make the fuel pump lug, but Docc's filter is new and presumably was installed facing the correct direction.

People say if an electric petcock fails the pump can still pull fuel through, again possibly lugging.

Did docc convert to manual petcock?

 

And of course, the great cure all:

Clean all connections with anti-oxidant contact cleaner and use silver conductive paste to eliminate oxidation and ensure connectivity.

[docc]

Did docc convert to manual petcock?

 

docc did.