From "ok" to bad

[dabore84]

At 6.30 o'clock this morning I went to TLM to have a checkup. I just bought the bike like 2 months ago and wanted to know if a bought a cat in the bag. After a quick check and a test ride by the mechanic, he said the bike is very good and everything is okay, except for the low rpm coughs and that the bike has a little low idle rpm.

He connected the bike on the Axeone and started tuning the throttles and idle tps. This went bad. He couldn't get the bike at 3.7 degrees, the bike just shuts down. After almost 2 hours and a hot engine (106 degrees C from the Axeone reading) he gave up. Told me that I need a dyno run and a different mapping.

After that I just asked him if he could turn the idle just a little higher and he did just that. Paying almost three time what I had in mind and what they told me it would cost, I went home. 80 miles ride. Took the exit from the highway and at the roundabout my bike shuts down. For the first time since I have it. I cranked the bike and got home for lunch

 

I have a guzzi v11 2003 with kat, lambda sensor and bos slip-ons. I "know" that the bike is coughing because it hasn't been tuned with the bos exhausts.

I've changed all the filters, got full synt oil, changed the spark plugs and adjusted the valves (.15mm/.20mm).

 

Could somebody help me out or at least gimme some moral support.

 

I am thinking of doing the tps balancing myself with a multi-meter and homemade manometer.

 

 

UPDATE 1: After dinner I went out for a ride. The bike starts, I let the clutch go (still in neutral). Little rumble and bike shuts down. Start a again, with more gas, in first gear, almost no gas response, drove for about 200 meters. No improvement, the tps/throttle balancing tuning went completely wrong. OMFG

[docc]

I don't believe the throttle bodies can be synched with the Axeone. The manometer will work.

 

The TPS must be calibrated fully closed first, then adjusted for the 3.6 degree opening. You can do this with a multimeter.

 

You can tune this by following the pinned tune-up thread at the top of "Technical Topics."

 

Keep a high volume fan on the front of the cylinders while working o avoid the heat build.

 

Best of luck and let us know how it is going!

 

And, remember, when she is running like a dream, you did it!

[Skeeve]

UPDATE 1: After dinner I went out for a ride. The bike starts, I let the clutch go (still in neutral). Little rumble and bike shuts down. Start a again, with more gas, in first gear, almost no gas response, drove for about 200 meters. No improvement, the tps/throttle balancing tuning went completely wrong. OMFG

 

Take it back to TLM, tell them they made it worse, & demand they either tune it properly or give you a refund. No pay for no results.

[dabore84]

I called them on Saturday. Chief mechanic told me to check the fuel lines, internal fuel pump. And if the problem still exists, I should call him again.

 

The things that worried me is that the 'tune up' took more than a hour and the bike was constantly running and getting pretty hot.

V11 balance tuning " The bike should run for about 5 to 7 min and let it cool down for about 20 min."

 

After the engine shut down he restarted it very quickly and that for couple of times. In the manual the say, try to start the bike for 5 seconds and if it doesn't start, wait for 10 seconds and try again. He waited for about 3 to 4 sec.

I have a very good starter engine, I guess

 

Ill keep y'all up to date ...

[Paul Minnaert]

did they balance it? The axone has nothing to do with balancing. Only to make that the tps gives the right reading at a certain opening. Don't start adjusting all things at the same time.

[Jap In OZ]

Hi Dabore,

 

You could consider going to, geezz my mind is not helping me out now... the guy in Zeeland? Antonio, Paul help me out on this one? he can flash your ECU and change both iginiton and timing curves... The scura ran briljantly after Ruud Fredriks (Ha the mind isn't all that bad) had a go at it. It is important to balance the throttle bodies, set the valve clearances etc prior to this as you would imagine.

 

Make sure you made all the mods you want to do before goin gdown this path.. I have since added some bitts and pieces and should really get another tuning session!

 

Cheers

 

Jasper

 

PS in my experience there are very few people that can set-up the V11 fuel injection especially with modified exhaust and air intake after the modification the fuel consumption was lowered and the caughing at 2700 rpm virtually gone.

[dabore84]

did they balance it? The axone has nothing to do with balancing. Only to make that the tps gives the right reading at a certain opening. Don't start adjusting all things at the same time.

 

It was connected to the axone and an electronic manometer. The mechanic was struggling for about an hour with the bike and gave up. He told me he never before had something like this.

I am gonna let TLM solve it first, I wont touch the bike.

 

Hi Dabore,

 

You could consider going to, geezz my mind is not helping me out now... the guy in Zeeland? Antonio, Paul help me out on this one? he can flash your ECU and change both iginiton and timing curves... The scura ran briljantly after Ruud Fredriks (Ha the mind isn't all that bad) had a go at it. It is important to balance the throttle bodies, set the valve clearances etc prior to this as you would imagine.

 

Make sure you made all the mods you want to do before goin gdown this path.. I have since added some bitts and pieces and should really get another tuning session!

 

Cheers

 

Jasper

 

PS in my experience there are very few people that can set-up the V11 fuel injection especially with modified exhaust and air intake after the modification the fuel consumption was lowered and the caughing at 2700 rpm virtually gone.

 

 

I already had contact with Ruud about 2 weeks ago. I told him that after the checkup at tlm, I am gonna let him know what if I need an appointment. As I already said, it's the combination of the exhaust and kat.

[dabore84]

Just called them this morning. They are gonna pickup the bike on Thursday

[luhbo]

I think you've already spent enough money on this bike. It ran well before you gave it to TLM. I can't imagine of how much the bloke one must be to "synchronise" for one complete hour and then finally give up.

 

They claim to be pros, they have an Axone, they have the connectors and cables. And of course they should have the experience to see after at least 10 minutes if something is really wrong with a bike.

 

Did he flash your ECU with the latest OEM software/mapping. At least this should have been done I say.

 

Get the TPS properly set, the TBs properly synched, the lastest mapping flashed down to the ecu and then mount whatever exhaust you like.

 

There's absolutely no need to go and pay for an expensive custom mapping just to make the bike idle stable and run without coughing.

 

That's really one of the more interesting threads I could read for the last weeks.

 

Hubert

[dabore84]

I've called them today and they have almost fixed the bike. The bike is running crazy (gaat als een gek! (for the dutchies)), after they took it for a test ride.

The mechanic also told me that on of my spark plugs wasn't working correctly??? That he also adjusted the valves (what I already did 2 weeks ago) and some other things.

I tried to tell him that I am not willing to pay all the costs, because the bike was broken because of their servicing. He told me that he will call me on Thursday with all the details of the work and the costs and that I shouldn't worry too much.

At TLM they don't have a dyno or other hardware to change the mapping. I really thought they did have it. I've made an appointment with Ruud Fredriks from Tovami to put a Power commander and have the bike on the dyno. This will happen on 10 of July.

Then on 16 July at Hyper Pro services to get now springs and adjusted to my weight (the mechanic there told me that I can watch what he is doing and he will explain me everything I need to know ). And 20 July I am finally ready for ride in the MotoGP of USA.

 

Thanks for your input friends, I'll post new findings on Thursday.

[richard100t]

Once your bike is tuned correctly it should never cough or backfire. If, when you get it back it still has the occasional cough or sputter, that only means that they got it close. It should idle smoothly & when you crack the throttle wfo in first gear the front wheel should get very "light" when you shift into second. There should also be no pinging or other chatter. Once you get the bike perfectly tuned you will know why we really love riding them.

One other thing, it should get better than 40mpg if you ride it in a "normal" non racing manner.

[dabore84]

The called me today. The bike is fixed, 210 euro's investigation costs?!??!? They gonna drop the bike on Thursday, free of charge

I cant wait to see what was done to the bike or investigated.

 

The good news is, the mechanic told me that bike runs really good and that I don't need the power commander. So, maybe they really fixed something that could explain the price tag. Test run on Thursday. More to come, stay tuned...

[dlaing]

The called me today. The bike is fixed, 210 euro's investigation costs?!??!? They gonna drop the bike on Thursday, free of charge

I cant wait to see what was done to the bike or investigated.

 

The good news is, the mechanic told me that bike runs really good and that I don't need the power commander. So, maybe they really fixed something that could explain the price tag. Test run on Thursday. More to come, stay tuned...

"Stay tuned" is good advice

I am guessing that your two week old valve job may have slipped off a bit making it impossible to tune correctly. A bad spark plug might cause the same problem.

Why it was running better before you brought it in was probably due to heat issues, although a Perfect mechanic would have gotten it back into at worst the condition it came in as....But few are perfect.

[dabore84]

Got the bike bike today. It runs as before, with the dip between 2k and 3k. So it's back in the original state

I also send the chief a letter about all the things that happened. I just couldn't tell him the whole story trough the phone. I said that I paid too much for the first checkup and that I don't know what was fixed. Example, it says on the bill, the valves are checked, only checked or also adjusted? I am waiting for his reply.

 

Now I can't put the Power commander, not enough cash. And then the speeding ticket. Somewhere in october/november I'll make a new appointment.

[Skeeve]

Got the bike bike today. It runs as before, with the dip between 2k and 3k. So it's back in the original state

 

This dip is in addition to the "normal" hole in the powerband from 3-4.5k rpm? Or just where your tachometer [each gauge package reading different, as they aren't precision instruments] shows the standard dip?

 

Enquiring minds want to know!