Gear box problem

[Mario]

I have noticed lately that my LeMans 02/03 with 7500 km on it have started to whine very loud in the sixth gear. It whines mostly around 3000 rpm. If I increase/decrease the speed the whine goes away, even so if I change down to the fifth gear.

 

Does anybody know if there is a common problem with the gear box, especially the sixth gear - if so, wahat to do???

 

SuperMario

[rocker59]

I never ride my Nero Corsa in 6th gear below 4,000 rpm.

 

3,000rpm in top gear seems like it would really be lugging the engine/drivetrain...

[drewscura]

I bought my scura with 9600 miles on it, with a whine in 3rd gear. I used it to keep up with what gear I was in until I learned the RPM to MPH comparison. I've put 6k on it and it's not getting any louder. I'll address it if it gets worse. Keep an eye on your fluid level and condition. You might even be able to quiet it down with some nice gear oil.

[Guest ratchethack]

I have noticed lately that my LeMans 02/03 with 7500 km on it have started to whine very loud in the sixth gear. It whines mostly around 3000 rpm. If I increase/decrease the speed the whine goes away, even so if I change down to the fifth gear.

 

Does anybody know if there is a common problem with the gear box, especially the sixth gear - if so, wahat to do???

 

SuperMario

SM, if by "whine very loud", you mean that it's significantly louder in 6th than the other gears, you may have a gearset going out, though at only 7500 km this would likely be due to a bad gearset from the factory. It's possible, though I think this would be a first as long as I've been on this Forum, and I've never heard of it happening to any V11 on any other Guzzi forums either. I'd check the magnet on the drain plug very carefully. If there's anything beyond a tiny hint of a fine "beard" on the magnet at this point, and you find a swarthy "growth" of grainy pieces, it's safe to assume there was a bad hardening process or that some other problem exists, and the gearset is chewing itself up.

 

Now what you're doing riding the V11 in 6th at 3K RPM is your business, and this is just me, but I consider this behavior Guzzi abuse. At 3K RPM, the motor is hardly making any more torque than a 50 cc moped at WFO. You're riding a 550 lb motorcycle, f'er cryin' out loud! The V11 motor is not a Motor Davidson Harley Cycle stroker motor. It doesn't start to make appreciable torque until it climbs out of the "hole" at 4500 RPM.

 

Keep in mind that BOTH 5th and 6th are OVERDRIVE ratios through the box. If your 6th gearset is failing, it'd be possible to ride and enjoy the Guzzi for a lifetime of ownership and proper use of the transmission at any speed below 90-100 mph without ever using it.

 

IMHO you should NEVER apply serious throttle in any gear above 3rd unless and until the motor is above ~5K RPM. If you just want to "toodle" around, 6th gear is a couple or three ratios TOO HIGH for this! In NO circumstances and at NO speed should 6th be used to buck a headwind and/or climb a long grade.

 

BAA, TJM, & YMMV

[dabore84]

SM, if by "whine very loud", you mean that it's significantly louder in 6th than the other gears, you may have a gearset going out, though at only 7500 km this would likely be due to a bad gearset from the factory. It's possible, though I think this would be a first as long as I've been on this Forum, and I've never heard of it happening to any V11 on any other Guzzi forums either. I'd check the magnet on the drain plug very carefully. If there's anything beyond a tiny hint of a fine "beard" on the magnet at this point, and you find a swarthy "growth" of grainy pieces, it's safe to assume there was a bad hardening process or that some other problem exists, and the gearset is chewing itself up.

 

Now what you're doing riding the V11 in 6th at 3K RPM is your business, and this is just me, but I consider this behavior Guzzi abuse. At 3K RPM, the motor is hardly making any more torque than a 50 cc moped at WFO. You're riding a 550 lb motorcycle, f'er cryin' out loud! The V11 motor is not a Motor Davidson Harley Cycle stroker motor. It doesn't start to make appreciable torque until it climbs out of the "hole" at 4500 RPM.

 

Keep in mind that BOTH 5th and 6th are OVERDRIVE ratios through the box. If your 6th gearset is failing, it'd be possible to ride and enjoy the Guzzi for a lifetime of ownership and proper use of the transmission at any speed below 90-100 mph without ever using it.

 

IMHO you should NEVER apply serious throttle in any gear above 3rd unless and until the motor is above ~5K RPM. If you just want to "toodle" around, 6th gear is a couple or three ratios TOO HIGH for this! In NO circumstances and at NO speed should 6th be used to buck a headwind and/or climb a long grade.

 

BAA, TJM, & YMMV

 

WOOW Ratchet, I didn't know this. Sometimes I just ride in the 6th with 2000-3000 rpm. Now that Im thinking about it, I hardly get above 5000 rpm in any gear.

Think I need to change my riding style drastically I always thought high gear low rpm for the fuel economy, unless I can feel the bike is torturing itself.

 

AND NOBODY TOLD ME OTHERWISE, well I didn't ask

[rocker59]

I have no idea how you guys can ride these bikes as low as 2k to 3k rpm in 6th gear!!!

 

You have to be practically coasting on flat or downhill stretches of pavement because the bikes make no power at that rpm and the gearing they have is pretty darned tall.

 

Honestly, I've tested it, and at a steady 75mph, my Nero Corsa returns slightly better fuel economy in 5th than it does in 6th.

 

At highway speeds of 75-80mph, the bike really is most comfortable above 4500rpm. That means 5th gear until around 80mph...

[Molly]

I'm feeling told off... I'd better pay more attention because I'm sure I spend most of my time below 4k. Too many years on Harleys I suppose.

[dabore84]

This is very interesting, I hope I'm not stealing the topic. But I always thought, 1100cc twin engine, enough torque. So the bike should easily run in low rpm in high gears.

 

Keep in mind that BOTH 5th and 6th are OVERDRIVE ratios through the box. If your 6th gearset is failing, it'd be possible to ride and enjoy the Guzzi for a lifetime of ownership and proper use of the transmission at any speed below 90-100 mph without ever using it.

 

What dou you mean with overdrive ratios. For higher cruising speeds?

[GuzziMoto]

Overdrive ratio means greater then 1 to 1 ratio. For every 1 revolution of the trans input shaft, the out put shaft would spin more then 1 revolution(i.e. 1.1 revolutions or something like that. Had never noticed 5th and 6th both being overdrives. But my wife and I constantly ride our Guzzis at or below 3k rpm in 6th gear. It is not abuse in the least. It doesn't lug until you get down to around 2k rpm and it depends on how much throttle you give it at low revs as to whether it lugs or not.

One of the beautiful aspects of riding a Guzzi is how much torque it makes at 3k rpm. You don't need to row the box like you do on many bikes to go fast, just twist the throttle and grin.

To each their own.

 

Edit.

I. just checked the manual for my wifes 2000 V11 and only 6th gear is an overdrive ratio.

Woops, the manual has a typo. Ratchet is correct.

What that has to do with riding the bike at 3k rpms I'm not sure. Since trans ratio is only half the story and Guzzis have prettty short final drive ratios. Being an overdrive box has more to do with reduced friction loss then what rpms the motor is happy at.

[savagehenry]

Our 90 degree V self cancels out engines vibration more efficiently than the Harley 45 degree twin that many of us have ridden, and cools better than the Harleys front cyl. blocking air to the back jug. And the MG transverse mount again reduces total overall vibration vs. the HD. My Nero had about 7000 miles on the odometer. I decided to get above 4000 rpm, and not go below again, till parking it. This literally changed, no, elevated the relationship with my bike to this day. I have had many versions of an air cooled twin, but have never felt so comfortable really revving one till this bike, my first MG. At 11,000 miles now, it revs even freer. For me, 3000 rpm is ONLY for creepin' in traffic, period. That day, this popped in my head...

"5800 rpm is like a loaded pistol...you can feel the potential..." S.H.

[pete roper]

"5800 rpm is like a loaded pistol...you can feel the potential..."

 

If you think this is true of the old 4V motor I can tell you that the 8V is in a completely new ball park.

 

Pete

[rocker59]

I'm feeling told off... I'd better pay more attention because I'm sure I spend most of my time below 4k. Too many years on Harleys I suppose.

 

 

Don't feel "told off".

 

You're just hearing from a couple of people who've been around Guzzis for a long time...

 

When I used to sell bikes at a Euro store, I sold a 1998 Ducati 900FE to a guy who'd been riding an HD Sportster 1200S.

 

A couple weeks after delivery, he called me complaining that his new Ducati had no power, it was a dog, and he was real disappointed in the bikes roll-on performance at 50mph in 6th gear...

 

Key words: 50mph in 6th gear...

 

I asked him why in the world he was lugging the motor like that and he started talking about Harleys...

 

Look I've owned Harleys over the years. I love Sportsters. The engines couldn't be more different in performance characteristics, though.

 

Ducatis and Guzzis don't start running until 4000 rpm, while the Sportsters can chug along all day at 2500...

 

HDs (and most cruisers) are "undersquare". Bore is smaller than the stroke. European bikes are the opposite. They are "Oversquare". Bore is noticably bigger than stroke.

 

Undersquare engines like the HD are known for low RPM performance and good fuel economy.

 

Guzzis are known to run best between 4000 and 7000 rpm... On the highway, the V11 Sport/LeMans will get its best fuel economy between 4500 and 5000 rpm.

[rocker59]

This is very interesting, I hope I'm not stealing the topic. But I always thought, 1100cc twin engine, enough torque. So the bike should easily run in low rpm in high gears.

 

That is true of under square engines with lots of flywheel/crank shaft mass.

 

 

What dou you mean with overdrive ratios. For higher cruising speeds?

 

5th is .9655 to 1

6th is .8619 to 1

 

Anything less than 1 to 1 is "overdrive".

[Baldini]

Well I dunno what you're all on about...gimme a taller 6th gear.

 

I often run below 5k for hours using 4th-6th gears .

 

I find it very relaxing.

 

I don't lug it up hills or whack open the throttle without changing down, just running smooth, keeping speed up on a steady throttle in the taller gears. It's not revs, it's the relationship between revs & load that is the issue, surely. If I need to load the motor I change down the gears til it feels happy.

 

KB

[Guest ratchethack]

. . . Sometimes I just ride in the 6th with 2000-3000 rpm. Now that Im thinking about it, I hardly get above 5000 rpm in any gear.

Dabore, may I suggest letting your Guzzi BREATHE a little! The power band for a stock (and just about every modified V11 I know of) is 5K-7K+ RPM. Now if you never even reach the power band -- IMHO you're missing the true character of the V11 motor entirely.

 

As far as I'm concerned, the beautiful match of that 5-7K+ powerband to the 6-speed ratios -- operated correctly -- is the entire heart 'n soul of the V11.

 

Hey -- you don't need WOT to make use of the power band! But it's a false notion, and not good for the motor, to assume that as long as it isn't bucking and detonating, that 3K RPM and below is an adequate place to accelerate from in a high gear! Like I said, this is Guzzi abuse, pure & simple.

 

Sorry, I just don't accept any alternative to this (I'm afraid there isn't any.) Simply saying, "Why, myself and everyone I know with a V11 have ridden it that way for YEARS!" ain't a credible argument, nor does this amount to credible backup justification for this behavior.

 

How many guys modify the living daylights out o' these motors chasing peaks on dyno charts (typically recorded only at WOT, BTW), and then never (or next to never) make ANY use of the rev range (let alone riding at WOT) that the mod's are supposedly intended to exploit!?

 

When I see guys whack open the throttles on a V11 at 3K RPM and short shift 'em, to me, it's worse than fingernails on a blackboard. Just because it'll pull at 3K RPM doesn't mean it's intended to be operated that way!!

 

Take a look at some credible backup for what I'm saying here. ANY stock V11 dyno chart will do. I'd be pleased to provide one here, but the woods 'r full of 'em for anyone interested enough to do a search. Below 3K RPM usually doesn't even show up on a dyno chart, because generally, dyno's aren't calibrated to be accurate that low! The torque and power lines on charts are usually chopped off at around 3K RPM for this reason. On brake dyno's set up to measure V11's, there's no usable output there relative to the capability of the motor. The torque drops off like a lead balloon from 3K and under, at around 30 lbs./ft and 30 BHP.

 

Now let the howling continue. . . [sigh] . . .