Options for changing fuel mapping on the V11

[dlaing]

Here is a comparison of various options for modifying the output of the ECU beyond simply tweaking the TPS, or hacking the sensors.

Please feel free to add to it:

 

Power Commander PCIII has been the most popular choice. Its shortcoming is that it only modifies the fueling and does not directly modify the ECU. Being a piggy-back system, there are some inherent inaccuracies to the map as sensor inputs change. The USB version does add separate right and left fuel mapping.

PCIII USB 706-411 $349.95 US They only list year 2000 and 2001, but rumor has it that it works for all years.

You can get confirmation of what works and a lower price from guzzitech.com.

 

Techlusion is cheaper than the PCIII but it modifies fueling in an overly simple way. But I don't see Guzzi listed on their site?!?

 

RapidBike offers a solution for the V11 that appears to be pretty similar to the PCIII. But no "TuningLink" and the wiring is a little trickier.

U.S. $365 + $115 modular wiring harness (required) + $56 Lambda sensor cut-off (required)

http://www.rapidbikeusa.com

 

TuneBoy TuneEdit can access most of the ECU's functionallity. Its advantage over all but the PCIII is that it can import PCIII maps. The current $379AUD version of Tuneboy cannot access fuel trim and diagnostics, but it accesses all the maps. The trim and diagnostics were planned features.

Here is the forum thread dedicated to Tuneboy

if you want to use the software on additional ECUs you must buy additional keys.

 

TechnoResearch's Directlink is very similar to Tuneboy, and less expensive last I compared. When combined with their diagnostic software at additional price, it can do diagnostics and set fuel trim. Without the diagnostic software, it does everything TuneBoy does, except for importing PCIII maps.

Like TuneBoy, if you want to use the software on additional ECUs you must buy additional keys.

$298 US from Guzzitech.com

$199 US for the VDSTSdiagnostic software http://www.guzzitech.com/store/TR-VDSTS.html

 

Axone can do diagnostics and set fuel trim, but I have not seen documentation on it being able to modify the maps, and it is expensive.

 

FIM Ultimap can modify the fueling, but I am not sure about the ignition, diagnostics, trim, etc.

$240AUD "flashload"

$400AUD UltiMap Diagnostics for Windows LITE

$800AUD UltiMap Diagnostics for Windows (UMD)

To do your own maps or load the flashload, you will need the $800AUD UltiMap Diagnostics for Windows (UMD) package includes the capability to FlashLoad new maps into these ECUs.

 

Cliff Jeffries' My15M is a $620 AUD hardware solution, that offers complete access to the ECU, both mapping and diagnostics, through free software, and it has options to integrate with an oxygen sensor and to optimize on the fly.

Here is the forum thread dedicated to the My15M

 

Moto-Spezial made a fully programmable ECU inside an attractive tach/Speed-ometer. But I can't find it on their website....

Paul M. has one on his Daytona. It can be seen here, listed under "new":

 

Please note I did not include all pricing options as there are many, and they do not clearly list the differences.

For example:

You may be able to get Pro versions that don't require keys.

Cliff offers significant price reduction if you solder it all together yourself.

Also, prices may not be up to date.

Yada, yada, yada...

 

Last edited 8.17.08 11:15PM Sun Diego Time

[dlaing]

Here is a letter I got years ago (so pricing is not likely correct) from TechnoResearch:

PRODUCT FEATURES & BENEFITS

• Reflash multiple maps via serial programming.

• Modify fuel front & rear cylinder table, spark front

& rear cylinder table, etc.

• Modify Rev-limiter (RPM).

• Fuel front & rear cylinder, spark front & rear

cylinder, etc.

• External Wide-Band Oxygen sensor (Add On).

• View data using strip chart or gauge/meter format

• Data logger feature: automatic or manual modes.

Logs data on basis of user-defined engine

parameters.

• Alternate data capture positions: start/middle/end.

• Available in 5 languages.

• Personal Vehicle Identification Hardware-Key

(PVIHK) - By plugging this device into your computer,

pertinent information about the vehicle is

available to you. View owner's name, vehicle

identification number, calibration ID.

Dear Mr. Laing,

Thank you for your request for product information. I have attached two pdf files containing product specifications and pricing. In answer to your questions, the key locks to the ECU of the bike thus requiring a Direct Link kit per bike. The price for this is $379.00 but you have the option to buy additional keys (one per bike) at $279.00 per key. If you have further questions feel free to call our office 248-658-1800.

Laura Scaccia

Sales & Marketing Manager

TechnoResearch, Inc.

lscaccia@technoresearch.com

248-658-1800

[guzzi323]

You forgot the obvious solution.

Carbs.

I put HSR 42 Mikuni's on my Scura and have never been happier with the bike. The low end running is much smoother than it ever has been and the hardest part was the silly extra bits. Finding a cable/throttle set up I liked and getting the petcock set up. It certainly isn't for everybody but I'm very happy with it. The only sensor I need now is the ignition pick up. All the rest are in a box.

The stock ECU keeps sending the ignition pulse just fine without all that extra stuff.

The only thing I would do differently if I were to do it again is to try 45MM carbs. I went with the conservative option and even with the accelerator pumps completely turned off I can whack the throttle open whenever I want. To me this suggests the motor could probably handle the 45's though at that point it might need the accelerator pumps to work well.

 

I know many people out there might not agree with what I've done, but look at all of the threads about the different sensors in the tech topics forum. Now I'm doing fine with just one of them.

 

My Luddite 2 cents.

 

johnk

[Dan M]

You forgot the obvious solution.

Carbs.

 

I know many people out there might not agree with what I've done, but look at all of the threads about the different sensors in the tech topics forum. Now I'm doing fine with just one of them.

 

johnk

 

 

In almost every (other) circumstance I would disagree. FI is usually trouble free and accurate. The MM system on the Guzzi is a different story. It can be wildly inaccurate and seems to need a bit of fiddling, and the addition of aftermarket devices to get it right.

I'd say you have an excellent solution John

[dlaing]

You forgot the obvious solution.

Carbs.

I would not really call a carb an option for changing mapping, but no doubt, the mapping will change if use carbs.

I have heard it said that the V1100Carb gets better fuel efficiency than the V1100Sporti.

I certainly considered carbs, until I got a PCIII and Tuneboy.

[raz]

I have heard it said that the V1100Carb gets better fuel efficiency than the V1100Sporti.

I find that hard to believe. Of course you can set up carbs to be much better than a stock EFI, but then you can change that map to be much better than those perfectly set up carbs, because you don't have to compromise. You could run AFR 15.5:1 at selected cells and 10:1 at others, completely without interference.

[dlaing]

I find that hard to believe. Of course you can set up carbs to be much better than a stock EFI, but then you can change that map to be much better than those perfectly set up carbs, because you don't have to compromise. You could run AFR 15.5:1 at selected cells and 10:1 at others, completely without interference.

At the time I heard that, the Creedon chip was about the only option for making the fuel injection work better.

Since Creedon designed the chip to work on 87octane, I bet it ran rich compared to the V1100CarbSport. At some point this guy had a Creedon chip, which could have influenced why he observed worse fuel mileage with the Sporti.

If the carb barrels are smaller, that may have had something to do with it too.

I recall he did say the Sporti was faster.

 

Would you please try that 15.5:1 method and let me know the results

I am a little scared to try it myself. Fear of burnt valves, etc.

I realize if you go lean enough the Exhaust Gas temperature starts to drop, which makes it more doable, but still there are transition points between cells, and setting it to 15.5:1 could take some time to get right...but maybe less time with the MY15 closed loop.

[raz]

Would you please try that 15.5:1 method and let me know the results

I am a little scared to try it myself. Fear of burnt valves, etc.

I realize if you go lean enough the Exhaust Gas temperature starts to drop, which makes it more doable, but still there are transition points between cells, and setting it to 15.5:1 could take some time to get right...but maybe less time with the MY15 closed loop.

I admit that was just an illustrative example... though 15.5:1 on a Guzzi is probably past the dangerous area so the engine would probably just run bad, if at all.

 

I did some experiments near and at stoich (at cruising) last spring, then looked at my plugs. They politely asked me "Hey Raz, please don't do that again" so I wont. Since then I don't go leaner than Lambda 0.96 and this gives me 5 l/100km mileage. I'm sure I could stretch it a bit leaner but I don't care, at least not until I can double check stuff with a 5-gas or something. Maybe the noise from my straight cut fivespeed masks any pinging noises, I haven't ever heard a ping from this engine.

[raz]

While aiming for something else I stumbled over this interesting article about Techlusion:

 

http://www.moto-one.com.au/performance/sta...techlusion.html

[raz]

I Google-slipped and stumbled over another alternative:

 

http://www.epicycle.com.au/electronics.htm

 

It's a replacement ECU. I don't know much about it. It seems very expensive.

 

Edit: it seems it only comes as replacement for P8 and 16M so not suitable for V11.

[emry]

http://www.microsquirt.info/

 

This is derivative of the "megasquirt" line of ECU's.

 

http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html Much more info available.

[dlaing]

http://www.microsquirt.info/

 

This is derivative of the "megasquirt" line of ECU's.

 

http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html Much more info available.

Has anyone done that with a Guzzi?

Is it customizable enough to support a V90° twin?

About $400 US, not bad.

You'd have to build your map nearly from scratch, would could be a fun challenge.

It opens the door to other options like MAP sensors....very interesting...

[raz]

You'd have to build your map nearly from scratch, would could be a fun challenge.

Converting maps between ECUs is easy so I disagree it would be nearly from scratch. On the other hand you will likely benefit from fine tuning as ECUs behave differently, for instance when interpolating.

[Murray]

I would not really call a carb an option for changing mapping, but no doubt, the mapping will change if use carbs.

I have heard it said that the V1100Carb gets better fuel efficiency than the V1100Sporti.

I certainly considered carbs, until I got a PCIII and Tuneboy.

 

 

Yep bullshit, I have a carbed 1100 sport with FCR flatslides it drinks like there is no tomorrow, even with the delorto's it was the same 7-8 litres per 100 round town is normal very rarely do i get 6's there has to be no traffic modest paced country run and relatively flat terrian. Flog it and it will easily go past 10litres and hit 11's if you are really into it. It has been professionally dyno tuned in too whilst running a tad rich to run it any leaner I'd have to change jets with the seasons. I don't think the motor would handle bigger carbs (41.5mm) as the acellerator pumps with the quick action throttle can just about put the fire out without some port and flow work and maybe a bigger cam. If anyone has ridden a stock Delorto 1100 sport with the factory tuning airbox and exhaust they would realise what a massive step forward the fuel injection system was on the sport1100i as flawed as it is.

 

BTW with the current state of the AUD the tune boy is cheaper than the moto specail device, I think the main problems affecting Guzzi's FI system is:

1 getting an old motor through new emissions.

2. When they do approach Webber Marelli for an ECU the volumes are very low so they get whats left over and not a whole lot of development time from the supplier.

3 Guzzi owners been conservative and usually stingy old farts and will !@#$ around at the edges with sensors and the like but actually biting the bullet and retuning the ECU as they are worried it might mess it up .

 

Yes I'm having a bit of a vent.

[dlaing]

Converting maps between ECUs is easy so I disagree it would be nearly from scratch. On the other hand you will likely benefit from fine tuning as ECUs behave differently, for instance when interpolating.

Thanks, I did not know it was so easy.

Maybe we should have been using the megasquirt years ago!?!