Guest captain nemo Posted October 7, 2003 Posted October 7, 2003 Squidisti, I am thinking of cutting a hole in the top of my airbox - 4 inches by 7 inches. I have heard this is the easiest, and an effective way to get more air. Question: My guzz is running nicely now, will this give me noticable improvements in torque and power? Where? Will I lose something anywhere? Will I have to fool with the Power Commander, and, is this tricky? Will it be louder? ~cap'n
jrt Posted October 7, 2003 Posted October 7, 2003 Louder? Yes. More power? I'll let Rich and others answer that- I dropped the airbox all together. I haven't heard of anyone complaining about such a mod (do a search for 'pods vs airbox lid' or something along those lines. That's been a continuing discussion for something like a year now. Might I suggest making a flange to replace the lid, rather than cutting the lid up? That way, if you don't like it, you can go back. If you cut a hole in the airbox lid, it's a one-way trip. Again, Rich has done this and could send you the piece or the measurements. FBF sells a box-top as well. Probably others- depends how cheap, eh frugal, you are. Cheers, Jason
RacerX Posted October 7, 2003 Posted October 7, 2003 I am thinking of cutting a hole in the top of my airbox - 4 inches by 7 inches... will this give me noticable improvements in torque and power? Where? Will I lose something anywhere? Will I have to fool with the Power Commander, and, is this tricky? Will it be louder? Cap'n, I have most of your questions documented on GuzziTech.com "More EV Power" under the Performance section of the webpage. This theory applies to the V11S motors (dyno proven). Yes it is noticably louder... no real losses to note. The beauty of the PCIII is that is does not need to be "fooled". Simply upload the map closest to what mods you have. I have quite a few maps available at Guzzitech.com, and I have a few others not listed, so write-me direct if you do not see your combo. I can offer a tweak or two on any map. Todd@GuzziTech.com Certified PCIII Tech GuzziTech.com
RichMaund Posted October 8, 2003 Posted October 8, 2003 I'm running an alloy frame to hold a K&N air filter in the stock box. No lid to restrict it. Just get one from FBF if you want one. Very reasonable price. I have the stock cross over and Mistral Guzzi alloy pipes. I have a PCIII from Todd! I'm running the map made for a V11S with Mistrals and stock everything else. That map worked well but seemed a bit on the rich side. I was slowly fouling plugs over a couple thousand miles running it that way. The K&N and no air box lid leaned it out nicely. I wouldn't cut a hole in your lid. Cheaper in the long run to buy a frame to eliminate the lid. Or, trace the lid and make your own frame like I did. My bike runs awesome. Another 70 miles on it today. Strong mid range, nice top rush and no driveability issues! I can highly recommend Todd's work on these!
Guest captain nemo Posted October 8, 2003 Posted October 8, 2003 Calling Todd to the rescue!! Ok my brethren, I went ape shit today. I took off the tank (why does gas not run out of the tank these days?) I saw how much space the air box took up and how it prevented me from making adjustments to the pre-load of my rear shock - SO OFF IT WENT!! I then softened up my shock by an inch or so. I noticed oily/gassy/greasy junk all over the airbox tubes and inside my TBs. Looks like it was running rich!! I pulled out the 'velocity tubes' from the air box. These I will attach back onto the TBs and then find some K&Ns to put on the ends. NO MORE BOX FOR ME. I have mistrals and stock everything else. I have NEVER tweaked the Power Commander. (I only bought my 2000 V11 two weeks ago) I will need a map. Here is my question: Do I down load the map onto my printer, take it out to the garage and tweak it by hand?????? I have a Mac, so I don't think I can directly download anything to the PC. Is this a problem? Will this map be impossible to figure out? Two other indirect questions out of curiosity: I noticed when I took the tank off that a mysterious tube ran from the top of the frame into the airbox???? WTF?? Also, there was also an electrical connection to the airbox?? I'm tripping - help me out. ---oh yea, does anyone know what size or number K&Ns I should get to fit over the ends of the velocity tubes? So far so good. ~Cap'n
docc Posted October 8, 2003 Posted October 8, 2003 I'm jazzed! You've had this bike two weeks and you're having this much fun ? What's a Guzzi for? The tube from the frame is your crankcase vent. As long as the tube stays above the heads it can vent to atmosphere. It may mist oil a bit especially if you run high rpm. K&N and others make a neat little element to clamp on the end of the tube. Hey, what did you other "box eliminators" ('pod jockeys') do with your crankcase vent? The electric connection is for the ambient air temperature sensor which can be zip tied in the airstream. It's probably smart to mount it clear of engine heat sources so it can read true ambient air temperature. I think Al or Carl have a thread on this(?).
al_roethlisberger Posted October 8, 2003 Posted October 8, 2003 Hi Cap'n, Just to add to the chorus, I would *NOT* cut your stock lid. There are too many options out there to get the same results in a reversible and non-destructive fashion. As mentioned FBF has an airbox lid eliminator kit for the V11, which even includes a performance filter: Fast by Ferracci Air Filter Kits Always love to help, and questions are always more than welcome But a suggestion: Many of the questions you've asked recently have been covered in depth, or at least touched upon, in a variety of threads on the Forum. I don't mean to sound as if I'm discouraging your posting But the "search" function works quite well, and several topics such as this very one are the "Top 40" of the Technical Topics Section. Drop in there and just browse around. I'm sure you'll find lots of interesting topics to ask questions about, or contribute to. Most of the technical discussions of this type are already there. Also, specific to your questions, the Forum Intake Kit and Filter FAQ has links to several of these topics and information. I don't recall off-hand which of the short conical filters are the best fit for mounting directly to the velocity tubes, but for my application the pods I have are the newer models that have the "intake runner" already integral to the pod, as opposed to older pods that were simply cannister/cylinders that clamped onto the intake velocity tubes. These filters have a about a 4 inch "runner" already molded into the filter, and have the runner angled such that the filter can be appropriately angled and adjusted to fit correctly by simply rotating the filter around. The part number is: RU 1780 You can see photos of them mounted in the "Pods vs Lid" thread... Hope that all helps al
al_roethlisberger Posted October 8, 2003 Posted October 8, 2003 I'm jazzed! You've had this bike two weeks and you're having this much fun ? What's a Guzzi for? The tube from the frame is your crankcase vent. As long as the tube stays above the heads it can vent to atmosphere. It may mist oil a bit especially if you run high rpm. K&N and others make a neat little element to clamp on the end of the tube. Hey, what did you other "box eliminators" ('pod jockeys') do with your crankcase vent? The electric connection is for the ambient air temperature sensor which can be zip tied in the airstream. It's probably smart to mount it clear of engine heat sources so it can read true ambient air temperature. I think Al or Carl have a thread on this(?). ...interesting comments on the crankcase vent tube. When I went to pods, everyone I've talked to said to just run the vent line down under the bike, which is what I've done. And it does "mist" a bit occassionally. I actually "teed" it in with the gas vent tube using a "Y" connector such that either fluid wouldn't/can't travel back up, and they both vent to one larger diameter tube under the transmission. I don't think this should be a problem? Regarding the air-temp sensor, yep... I just zip-tied it back near the pods and covered it with a short piece of hose to shield it a bit from debris, etc. al
docc Posted October 8, 2003 Posted October 8, 2003 I guess i got the idea of venting above the head from the old Brit-bike guys (or the Brit-bike old guys) who'd run a 5/8" tube out under the tail cowl. Works great on my single which, like the big twin, makes a lot of crank case pressure. The positive vacuum of the connction to the airbox probably scavenges the crank case better but makes little difference in the real world.
Guest captain nemo Posted October 8, 2003 Posted October 8, 2003 So that is what the oil in the air box was. Odd place to put your dirty oil????
docc Posted October 8, 2003 Posted October 8, 2003 Some oils are much more susceptible to heat evaporation. Castrol is pretty good and the synthetics are least prone to vaporization. (clandestine oil-thread hi-jack )
Guest PAULSMART Posted October 8, 2003 Posted October 8, 2003 I'm surprised by comments advising not to cut holes in air box - I've had a number of holes drilled and should the day come when i want to return to standard, I shall simply glue some plastic over them - Job done - where's the problem, no one can see it. My bike acheived 85.7 bhp on the dyno with above, PCIII and free flowing pipes - not bad me thinks! Paul uk
jrt Posted October 8, 2003 Posted October 8, 2003 Some oils are much more susceptible to heat evaporation. Castrol is pretty good and the synthetics are least prone to vaporization. (clandestine oil-thread hi-jack ) Very smooth Doc, very smooth. I now run sewing machine oil in my bike. The whale blubber I had been using was just too heavy. Cap'n, I run my vent down the frame, behind the starter (holds it in place) and vents to atmosphere. I've yet to notice any drips. The temp sensor is just zipped to the frame- like this: cheers, Jason
RacerX Posted October 8, 2003 Posted October 8, 2003 I have mistrals and stock everything else. I have NEVER tweaked the Power Commander. (I only bought my 2000 V11 two weeks ago) I will need a map. Here is my question: Do I down load the map onto my printer, take it out to the garage and tweak it by hand?????? I have a Mac, so I don't think I can directly download anything to the PC. Is this a problem? Will this map be impossible to figure out? Cap'n, sounds like you got most everything else covered. The PCIII/PCom software is not Mac friendly. That said if you run a Windows type program on your Mac, it can/has been done. Only other option is if you have a Palm Pilot. The Palm allows simple map loads, but does not allow access to the map. The PCIII map cannot be tweaked by hand. If you have any other questions, feel free to contact me direct, Todd@GuzziTech.com GuzziTech.com
Guest captain nemo Posted October 8, 2003 Posted October 8, 2003 RacerX/Todd, I've sent you an email, but I'm not convinced you will see it. My son has a personal computer in his room. I take it that I remove the power commander off the bike and into his room where I connect the commander to the computer via its cord, follow a link to the correct map and download the correct map. Is this how it is done? Can you send me here a link to the right map? I'm buying my K&Ns today (SU 1780), and will put everything back together tomorrow. Thanks, ~Cap'n
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