Another Hard Starter!

[mznyc]

Don't think is the starter. Have you thought at the regulator?

Ones I have bought a regulator in the USA for less of money. I think no more than 100 USD. (sorry but for us European is American market now very cheap he-he-he...)

Don't go on at that way with the V11, you might f u c k up more things in the electrical system at this way.

Ha,ha.,,,true ,I'll be nice.Ya I', still holding out hope that someone will chime in on doin a reg test other than revving to 3k checking and volts at battery.

 

I work at a Guzzi shop. We replaced more failed starters by far than failed batteries. Some bikes got two starters in their 2-year warranty period. Many got at least one during warranty. Many. My Ballabio is among them.

Common Greg,yer being humble.Anybody on here more than a few months SHOULD know who you are! Didn't realize this was a more common problem than I was aware of.That info from you,makes me very suspicious of the starter.I'll replace the battery,and see how she acts.Any shop test that I could do on the starter?

[Greg Field]

You can test on a bench. It still might fail under load, though.

[dlaing]

Would the starter kill the battery in one try, if it was bad?Showed,hard to tell because it's only for a fraction of a second, about 10v when starter is turning over.Then goes back to @ 12.6v.

That sounds like a good battery to me, but it would depend on the details, and the details are effected by temperature.

At room temperature, a new Hawker battery fully charged, should be able to sit overnight, read 12.84 Volts in the morning, be cranked for 3 full seconds would probably rebound to over 12.7V.

A marginal battery 75% charged, should be able to sit overnight, read 12.60 Volts in the morning,cranked for 3 full seconds would probably rebound to over 12.5V.

We don't have exact numbers but I am sure a bad battery would probably drop below 12.5V

A marginalized starter could start fine with the new fully charged battery, but probably not with a battery at 75%

I don't know what thresholds you would look at to determine if it is the battery or the starter that needs replacing.

At 12.5 V (sitting over night) I don't think my starter won't turn.

The threshold for it failing is probably close to 12.5V

I am sure this threshold will vary widely amongst our bikes.

 

Using my bike as an example, I just went to the garage to confirm the above:

My bike has a voltage leak issue, so after one week without riding, I just checked the voltage and it read 12.59.

I bumped the starter with the wrong throttle position for 3 seconds, stopped then read the voltage, 12.50. (Almost what I predicted)

I am sure it could still start at this point, but I am going to put it on the charger, just to get it from 75% upto to 100% charged. Air temperature is about 75-80F in my garage.

 

Maybe this chart will help:

[mznyc]

OK,checked all connections on starter and battery and everything seems tight and clean.Took battery out and looked at it. It is a Spark and has a MG logo on it so it probably is original.

Let bike sit for 10-15 minutes with key on and she started slowly but did start after a couple of revolutions of the starter.Stopped it and restarted and she fired up again albeit reluctantly for a second.So what I think I'll do is replace my battery,as that's the cheapest option and being 6 years old it is a little long in the tooth,so could be suspect.I think 5 years lifetime is fair for any battery.

If she shows any signs of starter problem with new battery or excessive draw while cranking I'll replace the starter

Thanks for the help,if anybody has any more ideas and suggestions for checking the rest of the charging system,I'd be open for any help or suggestions.

I'm gonna take her out tomorrow and see how she acts.Guess I'll have to stop on hills or inclines till resolved.

[raz]

FWIW the starter solenoid can be disassembled and cleaned. I plan to have a look at mine this winter. It has never failed starting, but it's weak and hesitant even with a brand new and fully charged battery.

[mznyc]

Thanks Raz.That solenoid is only a year or so old,so I hope it isn't mucked up.I remember that I wasn't sure if I should lube that plunger but didn't get a definitive answer from anybody here. http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?...c=10534&hl=

I think I put a light coat on or none at all.Saw your link to servicing starter and didn't see anything about whether to grease or not.I did just skim through it but,will give it a thorough read tonite.

If she shows signs of slow starting or hesitation with new batt,I'll do a tear-down.

Michael

[luhbo]

I'm with Greg, check the starter. If your battery was bad or dead already, you'd just hear your starter solenoid clicking and you'd measure around 12 V or below.

A dead starter consumes huge currents, more than even these strong but nevertheless small batteries can deliver. What you describe sounds typical for a dead starter: a still good battery doing all it still can to move only slowly this big engine.

If you look for another sign to proove this theory, start the engine once or twice this way and then touch the back cover of the starter. It's probably got dammend hot by only two attempts.

 

And don't forget to give an update here what the problem was in the end

 

Hubert

[mznyc]

Hi Hubert,

Thanks for the help,I'll try the multiple start method and see if the starter is warm/hot.Let cha know tomorrow nite

.

Ugh,$185.00 starter for a bike that has 16k is weeeak!

Is Euromoto the best place for price that you have found? http://www.euromotoelectrics.com/starterframes.html Is the model I want? Doesn't list the V11S,but does say all MG's 69-06.

[Greg Field]

Hi Hubert,

Thanks for the help,I'll try the multiple start method and see if the starter is warm/hot.Let cha know tomorrow nite

.

Ugh,$185.00 starter for a bike that has 16k is weeeak!

Is Euromoto the best place for price that you have found? http://www.euromotoelectrics.com/starterframes.html Is the model I want? Doesn't list the V11S,but does say all MG's 69-06.

 

That's the one you want. I doubt you will find a better price.

[mznyc]

Thanks Greg,for affirming.I'll see if the starter is gettin hot tomorrow.I also left bike off the charger for a couple of days to see where the battery volts falls after a rest.

[Tom M]

Many auto parts stores can load test your battery, and some can test your starter too, usually for free! You do have to remove them from the bike though.

[antonio carroccio]

Dunno you, but the starter of the V11 is the same as the starter in the FIAT cars.

You can try some second hands. Second hands here would be not more than 50,- Euro.

The Valeo in the V11 you can find in the fiat UNO, PANDA, PUNTO, etc.

 

But, that's Europe

[raz]

Some Volvos too, but there are different models of the Valeo with various gearing and direction, so either you'll have to double check model number or use some part from your current one.

[mznyc]

OK,Update,

Checked batt volts after she sat for a couple of days off the charger ,and she showed 12.86.after a few consecutive starts, she showed 12.75.Starter didn't get hot.Took her out for 75 mile ride and a couple of stops.Same symptoms,she hesitates for a half second,then fires.Chug,chug,,,,then,...fluumm!

Whaddya guys think?

Thanks,

Michael

[antonio carroccio]

You mess that up Michael. I don't want to be part of this thread anymore.

I think you get us buzy here and maybe is there nothing wrong with your Guzzi.

 

What about that, hé?