1200 Sport 4V

[Paul Minnaert]

Getting a mgs01 frame is just ordering at the factory. ANd the new engine can be used with old gearboxes, like from v11 or tonti. The vintage has the alternator in front like all tontis have.

There is place enough to mount the alternator in front, even on breva/griso. My bike does have it in front and is much shorther than both. Only I suppose the crank from the 8v isn't made so that an alternator could be mounted. But if Piaggio wanted, they could do it.

[pete roper]

Only I suppose the crank from the 8v isn't made so that an alternator could be mounted. But if Piaggio wanted, they could do it.

 

Yup, but that's as simple as putting a nose on the end of the forging and machining it to suit. There is no reason why they can't build a 'Sporting' version and they'd be mad if they didn't but.........

 

Personally I wouldn't use the 'Old' six speed as the new one is infinitely better and I don't think it is heavier or longer than the old one.

 

Pete

[Murray]

Yup, but that's as simple as putting a nose on the end of the forging and machining it to suit. There is no reason why they can't build a 'Sporting' version and they'd be mad if they didn't but.........

 

Personally I wouldn't use the 'Old' six speed as the new one is infinitely better and I don't think it is heavier or longer than the old one.

 

Pete

 

 

I think the newer one is longer I may be wrong though. The MGS is the wheel base of an Aprila RSV and they took all sorts of solution to get it into that whilst having as long as swingarm as possible.

 

But after turning up to a few track days with a MGS yes they would be mad if they didn't.

[Steve G.]

I think the newer one is longer I may be wrong though. The MGS is the wheel base of an Aprila RSV and they took all sorts of solution to get it into that whilst having as long as swingarm as possible.

 

But after turning up to a few track days with a MGS yes they would be mad if they didn't.

It's a perfect opportunity. The legend has planted the seed. It doesn't have to be a 150 hp superbike. It would sell as just a 105hp bike, the look is very important.

They have a huge problem with those unsold big Brevas, they really are showroom anchors. Someone is not reading the market, they are missing a great shot here.

Steve

[Guzzirider]

Looking at the poll I recently started about which Guzzi would you like to buy, the real new models got minimal votes- most voters wanted something sportier.

 

I know that a few people from the V11 Le Mans forum is possibly not representative of the whole bike buying audience, but I think it is true that only a certain percentage of big bike buyers look for bland utilitarian transport.

 

Many buyers want something that is going to give them a trouser tingle when they ride it, or when they are admiring it in the garage.

 

Guy

[Greg Field]

They'd be barking mad to go back to a crank-mounted alternator. I's like adding back flywheel mass after spending so much time lightening all the engine internals. Instead, redesign the MGS frame to allow the big alternator. They won't, though.

[raz]

They'd be barking mad to go back to a crank-mounted alternator. I's like adding back flywheel mass after spending so much time lightening all the engine internals.

Why is that, is the top mounted alternator lighter? I don't get it.

[Greg Field]

Much effort was expended taking off pounds of spinning mass inside the engine. Why add those pounds back by putting the alternator on the front of the crankshaft? Instead, bend a few tubes on the frame so that the top-mounted alternator will fit the frame. Better yet, redesign the frame to move the engine forward and allow the overhead alternator.

[Steve G.]

Much effort was expended taking off pounds of spinning mass inside the engine. Why add those pounds back by putting the alternator on the front of the crankshaft? Instead, bend a few tubes on the frame so that the top-mounted alternator will fit the frame. Better yet, redesign the frame to move the engine forward and allow the overhead alternator.

I understand and agree with Greg's explanation. Many other twin cylinder bike companies ,BMW as a direct comparison] have gone to great lengths to lighten the rotating mass of their engines, and the result has been a success.

My basic point as a potential Moto Guzzi purchaser, is that Moto Guzzi is not producing bikes right now that are big sellers. Guzzi should be about retro, this is their potential "meat & potatoes". When Guzzi dropped their retro V11 series, they allowed Ducati to walk right in and take over with their money making Classic series. The new V7 is a fine restart, but they REALLY REALLY need to build the same retro style again based on the big block series. If they can't do this with the big block Breva frame, fine, or the Griso frame, fine. But, Guzzi is too small to have showroom dogs, and the standard Breva is not moving, it's time is done. They need to see this, everyone else can! The one advantage a small company like Guzzi should be the quick decision, the ability to quickly get a model out. Big companies like Honda plan for yrs, to get through all their levels.

Steve

[Paul Minnaert]

Steve, my understanding is that the Ducati sportsclassic were a sales disaster.

Guzzi might be small, so you think they can move fast, but they have very limited resources. The daytona should have had a six gear box, that had to wait until the v11. And then they didn't have the money to make use of it, eg make a long swingarm. And if Piaggio management is faster, we will see.

[raz]

Much effort was expended taking off pounds of spinning mass inside the engine. Why add those pounds back by putting the alternator on the front of the crankshaft? Instead, bend a few tubes on the frame so that the top-mounted alternator will fit the frame. Better yet, redesign the frame to move the engine forward and allow the overhead alternator.

I take your word for it but I'm not sure I understand the difference. I thought the total mass, or inertia, would be about the same. But maybe the point is it's in another plane?

[pete roper]

They'd be barking mad to go back to a crank-mounted alternator. I's like adding back flywheel mass after spending so much time lightening all the engine internals. Instead, redesign the MGS frame to allow the big alternator. They won't, though.

 

Where the rotor is is irrelevant. It still imparts inertia to the crank be it directly or through a belt. The only thing that would change that is the ratio between the size of the pulleys and I think that on the new bikes its 1 to 1 isn't it so the effect is the same as crank mounting apart from frictional losses due to the belt and whatever the mass difference between the crank totor and the belt driven one.

 

Pete

[Paul Minnaert]

Where the rotor is is irrelevant. It still imparts inertia to the crank be it directly or through a belt. The only thing that would change that is the ratio between the size of the pulleys and I think that on the new bikes its 1 to 1 isn't it so the effect is the same as crank mounting apart from frictional losses due to the belt and whatever the mass difference between the crank totor and the belt driven one.

 

Pete

 

The thing is, they told when they first made the engine, it was so they could move the engine more forward in the bike to get the weight placement better. Well look how much space the brave/griso have between wheel and the engine, the engine could have been 10 cm more to the front. And with alternator on the crank placement in front with long swingarm and short wheelbase is possible. Look at my bike, the mgs01 and Ghezzi&Brian

[DeBenGuzzi]

this isn't anything new is it? I thought hte 1200 sport had been around for a good while and is basically a new engined breva with a bakini fairing, no?

[Paul Minnaert]

right, but now there is a version with the 8v engine in it, that is different.