What to do about the vehicle manufacturing industry

[Guzzi2Go]

Actually, it would be 100kW diesel, 90kW generator and 80kW motor, due to efficiency/losses.

[GuzziMoto]

There are lots of opinions on this, but I think it will work. Evidently, so does Chevy.

http://www.chevrolet.com/electriccar/?seo=...al_|_chevy_volt

The idea is sound. The only question is will the technology be up to it.

The long and short of the electric car conspiracy is if there is profit to be made the cars will be built. Until they figure out how to do it at a profit and not price themselves out of the market nothing will happen. I hope Chevy has figured it out. I would never have thought I would say anything pro-Chevy five years ago.

[felix42o]

Yeah, the Volt is cool. I saw one at the LA auto show this past weekend. They wouldn't say who, but said that "yes, we do have a supplier for the LiIon batteries now, thank you" so I guess it's a go. The big deal about it, besides it being a 'true' hybrid, is the battery setup. Lots (140 or something) of little packs arranged in a T shape that allows for better weight distribution and interior room. Apparently, the square shape of the LiIon packs also allows for better cooling and more precise, even temperatures throughout the cells themselves, which (according to Chevy) is a critical part in the range and life expectancy of the packs.

Neat stuff. Plus, the whole chassis is kind of flat and modular looking, so maybe they designed it to support different bodies on the same platform in the future? The Chevy spokesman wouldn't say, but said it wasn't out of the question.

[gavo]

the volt looks good but do you think they could add a recorded V8 exhaust note whiring noises just won;t do

[John in Leeds]

The long and short of the electric car conspiracy is if there is profit to be made the cars will be built.

 

There is usually more than one side to a story. No manufacturer will produce a profitable line if it interferes with profitability in other areas of the business. Whether or not there was an anti successful electric car 'conspiracy' is now irrellevant. The unsuccessful motor industry is now begging for some $35 billion of taxpayer guaranteed cash, with promises to curb excess, directors to work for $1 per annum (plus of course expenses) and a focus on production of more environmentally friendly vehicles. You couldn't make it up.

[dlaing]

Too heavy. Add masses of a 100kW Diesel, 100kW Generator and 100kW Electric Motor, and you will be close to a ton. Add space needed, and a car will turn into a truck.

 

I know quite a few people who insist on driving SUVs (commuting nearly 100 miles per day), just because it makes them feel safer.

For those people that could make for a very appealing 3 ton 2 seater!

What the heck, we could also add a steam turbine to turn some of the wasted heat into energy, but then we might be up to 4 tons with all the water we would be carrying!

 

eCycle designed a hybrid that 'looked' promising

http://www.hybrid-vehicles.net/ecycle-hybrid-motorcycles.htm

I think is a conventional hybrid(dual power drivetrain), but if you look at their website

http://www.ecycle.com/APU.html

they sell diesel and gas DC generators that could be used for creating enough power for an electric only drivetrain.

[John in Leeds]

eCycle designed a hybrid that 'looked' promising

http://www.hybrid-vehicles.net/ecycle-hybrid-motorcycles.htm

I think is a conventional hybrid(dual power drivetrain), but if you look at their website

http://www.ecycle.com/APU.html

they sell diesel and gas DC generators that could be used for creating enough power for an electric only drivetrain.

 

Looks good. What we need now are some reviews and testing

[Guzzi2Go]

...

they sell diesel and gas DC generators that could be used for creating enough power for an electric only drivetrain.

How much power is enough? I see that the largest unit they sell is 11kW and weighs 73 kg. That is in the range of 125ccm bike engine. It will not get you far past 100km/h (if at all).

[GuzziMoto]

If you are using the generator in a true hybrid, the power output of the generator only needs to be the average of the power needed. The generator charges the batteries and they power the motors.

[waspp]

As battery technology improves maybe electric cars will become a viable product for the general public. The Chevy volt has a 40 mile range with a fairly small battery unit (compared to GM's first electric car) but still is way to impractical for most drivers here in the US. Car companies have to provide products people will want to buy, if thats truck and suv's then thats what car makers will produce. When the government demands certain products be made because of some pet project or false crisis (global warming) then we are in big trouble. Its no longer goverenment of the people but central planning.

 

Hybrid technology is getting better and better but the cost of hybrid vehicles doen't make economic sense. The prius for example will cost you way more dollars in the long run than similar sized gasoline or diesel powered vehicle. Its also been said the Toyota Prius is more damaging to the environment than a Hummer H2 when you take into account longevity and cost (both financial and environmentally) when you have to replace those expensive (toxic) batteries.

 

One of the biggest reasons for the bog 3's trouble is union agreements that arn't sustainable. The average cost per worker because of retirement and health care is way higher than foreign counterparts. How do you level the playing field? US cars are restricted imports in Japan and Korea yet their vehicles flood our markets. Yes foreign auto companies have buit plants on US soil but most have been given tax breaks, government subsidies and even in the case of Honda and Daimler in Alabama taxpayer dollars to build new factories.

 

The best thing for the US companies would be to fail and start again without all the past baggage they have struggled with for years. US auto companies make excellent products that can stand against any products out there, but the playing field should be equal. Why do we give foreign companies tax payer dollars to build plants here in the US which helps cripple our own companies?

 

I own 2 GM products and have owned many more, my truck has 124000 miles on it with no major problems in its entire life. My wifes car is a Chevy Caprice with 160000 miles on the odo, a big 6 passenger car that gets 24mpg and nothing more than a set of plugs and an exhaust manifold that developed a crack. My previous truck had 297000 miles on the clock when I sold it and its still going. If you figure initial cost of the vehicle and regular maintenence these are some of the most economical vehicles to own.

[GuzziMoto]

As battery technology improves maybe electric cars will become a viable product for the general public. The Chevy volt has a 40 mile range with a fairly small battery unit (compared to GM's first electric car) but still is way to impractical for most drivers here in the US.

How is the volt impractical. It will go 40 miles on electric alone, then keep going as long as there is gas in the tank. It will seat five adults. No it will not crush cars like a giant SUV, but that is not my basis for practicality.

[waspp]

How is the volt impractical. It will go 40 miles on electric alone, then keep going as long as there is gas in the tank. It will seat five adults. No it will not crush cars like a giant SUV, but that is not my basis for practicality.

 

The Volt will be great for certain people, i'm not knocking it all but at a price of $40,000 how practical is it? You still have to plug it in at when not in use and that electricity has to come from somewhere and its not free. the Economist did a study on electric cars a few years ago and found them less energy efficient than the internal combustion engine. Presenty they are working on bacteria battery technology that may provide a longer lasting, greater range battery for less money than present technology. To me it would be more practical (economical) to buy an efficient gas or diesel vehicle for half the cost of a volt or prius and put the cash in my pocket. But if you want to be the first on your street with a volt thats cool! As the technology improves the cost of these cars will come down but the electricity has to be made somewhere to charge your electric car. Most likely a coal or oil fired power plant.

[GuzziMoto]

The Volt will be great for certain people, i'm not knocking it all but at a price of $40,000 how practical is it? You still have to plug it in at when not in use and that electricity has to come from somewhere and its not free. the Economist did a study on electric cars a few years ago and found them less energy efficient than the internal combustion engine. Presenty they are working on bacteria battery technology that may provide a longer lasting, greater range battery for less money than present technology. To me it would be more practical (economical) to buy an efficient gas or diesel vehicle for half the cost of a volt or prius and put the cash in my pocket. But if you want to be the first on your street with a volt thats cool! As the technology improves the cost of these cars will come down but the electricity has to be made somewhere to charge your electric car. Most likely a coal or oil fired power plant.

The Volt is NOT an electric car and it never HAS to be plugged in. You CAN plug it in to charge up the batteries while at home and I expect most people would do that most of the time. Electricity is cheaper then gasoline. The Volt will be far cheaper then a gasoline car for most people to operate if it does 3/4's of what is expected. $40,000 is not cheap but that puts it in the middle of the road for new car prices.

[waspp]

I believe the Volt is an electric car with a gasoline standby engine it is not a hybrid so you do have to plug it in. All i am saying is if you by a Suzuki sx4 for $13000 and its good for 100000 miles ...well you can buy a lot of gas for $17000 dollars! Plus the car will still run but you Volt will need a new load of batteries which will cost you a pretty penny!

 

Correction the epa calls the volt a hybrid car with an estimated 48mpg rating. It primary engine is electric with a 40 mile dead range. The gasoline engine powers an onboard generator to charge the batteries. Buy a diesl golf and get 50 mpg!

[dhansen]

Getting back to the original subject of what to do about the vehicle manufacturing industry, I heard what I think is a brilliant idea.

 

Have the Big Oil companies bail them out. Who has benefitted more than Big Oil from the gas hogs that came out of Detroit? Only seems fair to lend a helping hand!

 

Dennis