Thanksgiving Day in America

[charlie b]

Thanksgiving in the US is when we give thanks for the things we have. Holiday established as simply a day of thanks. I don't remember the story behind why it was in Nov. And, no, offering thanks for bountiful harvest is not exclusive to the US. Has been around since before any countries were established. Ancient tribes around the world celebrated the end of the growing season and offered thanks to the god(s) for the harvest. The US simply celebrates it as a major holiday.

 

Yeah, there was a big to do about the pilgrims and their feast. Various versions of that tale. 1) Pilgrims were starving and the Indians came in and saved their lives by offering food and methods for farming. 2) Pilgrims had first good harvest and decided to share it with local Indians as an offering to live in peace and harmony 3) Neither happened 4) in any case the later settlers came in and shoved the Indians off the land in order to build big cities 5) Indians in that area perished due to the plague that the settlers brought over from the old country. I'll let the historians figure it out.

 

Our schools have been full of historical propaganda for many years, and will be for many more. One of the reasons home schooling has jumped dramatically.

 

charlie

[gstallons]

It is an unmentioned fact about your last sentence..."Victors write history".

 

You should have native American ancestors, #4 and #5 of your points really make you feel good about the whole thing.

[charlie b]

Victors do write history. And write it again and again depending on political climates.

 

Not any native Americans I know of in my history (not that there aren't any). One set of grandparents was from Montenegro (mentioned above) the other side of the family goes back to 13 colony days. Immigrated from Scotland and Ireland. Ministers. As such were a long line of teachers including the founder of Miami University (the one in Ohio, theological when it started). Most of the 'tree' is accounted for, but, there is always the chance that another 'branch' is in there somewhere.

 

It is just something of an oxymoron that the leading countries of today mostly were founded on the blood of the original inhabitants of the lands, whether because of dictatorships, land barons, or simply invasion by another culture. We consider ourselves 'civilized' when in reality we are simply better armed. By the same token, those original inhabitants were frequently using up their free time killing and stealing from each other.

 

Yes, my daughter claims I am getting crabby in my old age. Just frustrated that governments in general won't leave their populace alone.

 

charlie

[gstallons]

As with the original (last known) inhabitants, any time a superior culture encounters an inferior culture the inferior culture becomes extinct. This is why we will shoot at (inner or outer space) aliens when they come.

It is time for you to introduce your daughter to Aldous Huxley and George Orwell. It doesn't hurt reading their works every 5 yrs. to see no mater how much we progres we are going backward.

As with the government(s) the people exist to keep them going. Our welfare is considered just often enough to keep down any major overthrow. I love my country, it's traditionally been the government I don't care for.

[antonio carroccio]

Do I smell locky? <_>

[gstallons]

locky...?

[tmcafe]

Being a fan of Cdr. Ratchethack's contributions to this great V11 site, if not of his political leanings, I just couldn't pass the opportunity to chime in on this special occasion. What I'm about to say may sound like it's all set up on purpose, but it really isn't.

 

So here I am looking at this post about a US holiday as seen by a Romanian journalist, on a forum dedicated to our beloved Italian beauties. I have just ridden my own Cafe and am wearing my Combat Lite boots--designed by Sidi in Italy for Aerostich in the US, and crafted ("with pride" as they would say here) in Romania--just as I was some decades ago. Having been born and raised there inevitably gives me a different perspective on things, sometimes odd enough for me to even want to mention it. Let's just say that I couldn't possibly toe any party line, period. But here are some bits on the subject.

 

I'm with Cdr. Ratchethack on the subject of freedom (and opportunity, and other things as well). I've seen the lack thereof, and know how it feels like, including the gradual tightening of the noose of government control. The year 1984 in Romania looked even worse than the one in the novel with the same title (and there were about five more years to go through). I've heard plenty of horror stories from folks who lived even worse times before I was born. And it scares me to see that freedom is in danger to be taken away or even given up very easily, here and elsewhere. I know all too well what the signs are as I've seen plenty of examples years ago. It also irritates me enough to keep my mouth shut for fear of saying something really offensive, when I see displays of communist icons as something "cool". Anyway, there's much more to it, enough to fill many pages. On the other hand, with all due respect to Cdr. Ratchethack and others, I suspect I have very different views on who the enemies of freedom are, and how to defend it against them (and even who the defenders are).

 

Another thing, FWIW: Romanian media has been booming since around 1990, after decades of total government control. However, the lack of a free press gave way to a flood of tabloids, and it's hard to find a decent newspaper in Romania. "Evenimentul Zilei", the journal where the article was originally published, is hands down one of the worst, if not the worst, example. Same goes for the journalist. While the writers and many of the readers of such rags may be intelligent, the quality of the comments and information is about on a par with the National Enquirer. If this journalist would cover the weather, I'd rather stick my finger in the wind (well, not that finger, although it would be appropriate ) to test it than listen to his predictions. Same goes for any references to "God". Whether this means an "unvarnished, TRUTHFUL commentary" from such a source is to be taken seriously, that's up to the reader. I guess that's part of being free.

 

So, getting back to our bikes and and the holiday: I hope everybody this side of the pond had a good Thanksgiving and is having a good time. And let's not forget the bikes: I did ride mine two-up in freezing cold and fog to the dinner I was invited to.

[richard100t]

I just had the RM out on a cool sunny, thirty something degree day here in Ohio I feel thankful that it started & I enjoyed the freedom of the air rushing by me at something very much more speed than the law allows. As for the political viewpoints, I have one or two.....maybe some other time

[docc]

Where are we . . Ah, yes: "The retched refuse of your teeming shore."

 

"Send these: the homeless tempest tossed to me:

 

"I lift my lamp beside a golden door."

 

Who am I? A Scot . . . Irish . . . German. Did YOU send my people here? To this harsh place? And then criticize our intensity? Our determination?

 

What does it have to do with "motoguzzi?" Indeed, I have no one else in the International community to trust. I ride this bike, I lived in Bavaria, once. But, now, I am here. I would take you in to my home, Guzzisto . . . feed you the Mannicotti, share the single malt.

 

In this season of 'coming winter', of 'uncertainty and change', I share a blessing of goodness and kindness with you.

[antonio carroccio]

Docc, that manicotti, that's real Italian food. Very old tradition. Older than spaghetti and pizza!

You mention it in another thread, but I would say it here, I am proud your woman makes it.

 

But, as far as I know there is no relation between manicotti and turkey.

[antonio carroccio]

locky...?

locky.....lock.....locked.....

 

got the link?

[Paul Minnaert]

I searched how to make manicotti. From what I read, it is the same as I make pancakes.

[docc]

Yes, the true manicotti is not a pasta , but more like a crepe. Delisioso!

 

We did have turkey and dressing this Thanksgiving, but often we will do something different; a pasta pescatore, or ravioli from Aunt Anna's old recipe made like dumplings.

 

It is, after all, a celebration of plenty and the gratitude of recognizing where it comes from.

 

I am lucky to have the lady who is happy in her kitchen, but yet remains 'small.' Our next "Holiday" is her birthday before we enter the Christmas season.

 

Happy Holidays to all of you! (and good eating )

[Guest ratchethack]

Gents!

 

In keeping with the original post in this thread, in which I shared a story of a personal friend of mine, a Hungarian immigrant, and his family who became American Citizens legally, and who always have much to be thankful for, here's more on what Thanksgiving Day in America means -- this time, direct from immigrant students still very new to this country.

 

NOTE: Though this story emanates from New York City, neither this story, nor anything like it is to be found on the pages of The New York Times (the "paper of record" of New York City). You see, this kind of thing is far too politically incorrect, and simply won't be tolerated by the publisher of the NYT -- not now, not ever.

 

Those not yet fully indoctrinated by toxic propaganda may immediately understand the significance of this story and the one I provided perviously. Others -- none too likely.

 

From the Nov 29-30, 2008 Weekend Edition of The Wall Street Journal

 

What Newcomers Know About Thanksgiving

Immigrant students learn what makes America great.

By MELANIE KIRKPATRICK

Queens, N.Y.

 

Study after depressing study finds that public schools are failing in their civic duty to transmit to students an appreciation of American history and ideals. That may be so. But on this Thanksgiving weekend, allow me to recount a good news story from a New York City high school for recent immigrants. There, a group of teenagers, born in the four corners of the world, have a lot to teach a native-born visitor about Thanksgiving and what it means to choose to come to this country. For them, the Pilgrims' story mirrors their own stories.

 

Newcomers High School is located in the New York City borough of Queens, where, according to the 2000 Census, 46% of the population of 2.2 million are immigrants. It is one of the most ethnically diverse counties in the country. Some 850 students attend Newcomers, says Principal Mary Burke. They hail from 60 countries and speak 40-plus languages. For most, this past Thursday marked their first or second Thanksgiving celebration.

 

Sophia Zannis teaches ESL -- English as a Second Language -- at Newcomers. She uses the Thanksgiving story to get her students talking and writing about why they came to the U.S. History teacher Tim Becker includes a unit on the holiday even though Thanksgiving isn't part of the state-mandated curriculum for his 11th-grade class. It "reminds my students that they are not the first new Americans to have struggled to achieve their dreams," he says, "and that others before them have overcome the challenges of living in a new country."

 

Like the Pilgrims, most of the students at Newcomers say their families came here seeking better lives. The Pilgrims "were looking for something they didn't have in England," says a girl from Colombia. "When you come here it is the same. You have to face difficulties." An Ecuadorian girl sitting near her agrees, "When they [the Pilgrims] came here, they felt alone and didn't have friends. Me either."

 

Virtually every student I talk to has a similar story: "My dad came here to have a better life," says a girl from Ivory Coast. "He worked as a house boy. Now he works for the MTA [Metropolitan Transit Authority]." Or a boy from China: "My mother finished elementary school. Then there wasn't any money for middle school. . . . She wanted to come here to make a better life for her children." A Bangladeshi boy quotes the Declaration of Independence; his family came here for the purpose of "pursuiting the happiness."

 

In Ms. Zannis's class, we fall into a discussion of the virtues the Pilgrims exemplify and the personal characteristics they needed in order to survive the terrible winter of 1620-21, when half their number died. The words fly across the classroom: "Courage." "Hard-working." "Brave." "Frustrated." "Strong." "Don't give up."

 

That, in turn, segues into a discussion of poverty in America and how it's different from poverty in their home countries. The poor in this country seem "middle class," says a boy from Mexico. Another Mexican, this time in Mr. Becker's class, makes a similar observation. "In my country," he says, the poor are "skinny. . . . Here it is different. They are fat. Food is very cheap here. . . . They can get a dollar meal." The girl from Ivory Coast says it pains her to see Americans sleeping on the streets. The poor don't sleep outdoors in her country, she says. "They sleep with family or friends. We see more poor people" in this country.

 

The kids at Newcomers High School have an edge on their native-born peers: They know why they're here -- a knowledge that translates into an intense appreciation for their new country. I don't know how Newcomers' students would score if required to name the "Father of the Constitution" or to identify the opening words of the Declaration of Independence, as one test of general historical knowledge recently asked students elsewhere. Nor do I know whether the respect for different cultural traditions that the high school obviously fosters is accompanied by a curriculum that stresses American history, culture and heroes -- the store of knowledge that binds us together as a nation.

 

But the young newcomers I interviewed in Queens had an essential, and very personal, understanding of the earliest story at the heart of the American experience. They understood the hurdles the English settlers had to overcome before they celebrated the First Thanksgiving and why it was worth it. "My story and their story was very much alike," says a boy from Bangladesh. "Both groups suffered in their mother country . . . and arrived in the United States with a new hope in [their] heart, a new dream in [their] eyes."

 

Ms. Kirkpatrick is a deputy editor of the Journal's editorial page.

[tmcafe]

Great story about the kids in Queens. I also like their observations about the fat and the homeless folks (though I doubt being fat should be blamed on being poor). I won't get into my doubts about ESL programs, which are perhaps better than "Bilingual Ed" (a code word for a whole trend I've resented from day one en esto pays). Press 1 for English... Fastest growing blah, blah... The other day in a leftist environment I couldn't stop saying something that they consider anathema: I'd vote to make English the official language tomorrow. It may sound so reactionary ("learn the language, speak the language or get the hell out of here"), but I don't see what's the problem. Keeping the traditions and values from the old country is great, and the society is enriched by that. But if you think learning the language and becoming functional in a country you chose to live in is too much, and then you blame the society for lack of opportunity, think again...

 

As far as appreciating the freedom and opportunity here, here's what I find the most simple indicator of how clueless (and provincial) a native person is: "So what made you come to this country?" They should visit that school in Queens.

 

Back to our regular programming of V11 content: just came back from a super nice ride in the mountains