HELP with starting! New to motos + Used v11 = no idea where to sta

[SFSig]

New member so go easy on me!

 

I recently bougth my first bike after renting mopeds in thailand and falling in love with two wheels and a motor. I naturally was drawn to the v11 for its classic lines and uniqueness. Its a 2000 v11 sport with about 10k miles and the Magni fairing (I posted a pic on the map thingy in San Francisco if you're interested in seeing it).

 

Anyway, I'm texting on my blackberry from public transportaion at the moment because my bike died this morning. I started it up this morning, let it warm up a bit, drove a block and the engine died and wouldn't start up again. All the lights work. I can hear the fuel pump charging the system but when I try and turn it over all I hear is a succession of rapid clicks.

 

I breifly read some posts on starter issues and will continue to research but I have a suspicion as to what it might be and would like some confirmation.

 

This morning when starting to warm up the bike, I forgot to put up the kick stand. It was in neutral and started, but when I tried to put it in gear it died. Not realizing that I had my stand still down, I restarted the bike, let it idle and then again tried to put it in gear. Again it died. Finally I realized I was an idiot and put up the kick stand, started the bike and rode away. I got a block and it died and couldn't get it to start again.

 

I think my having the kick stand down with the engine running may have caused the problem but I'm relatively ignorant about motos and very ignorant about moto guzzis. Am I way off base or possibly on the right track.

 

Since, I've tried switching the five pin relays, added gas, and racked my brain but still nothing. The bike came to me with a new battery so I don't think it's that but definitely could be wrong.

 

Any ideas or suggestions?

 

My thumbs hurt....

[dlaing]

Difficult to diagnose from that info.

My first suspicion would be the battery, because the repeated restarts may have given it a workout, and the cold weather probably has not helped either.

But when my battery weakens, I don't get clicking, the starter engages but fails to turn the engine.

So, to me it sounds like your starter or solenoid may be bad.

Is the clicking from the solenoid or the starter relay?

Starter relay is notorious for problems. But you said you switched the five pin relays around, so I really don't know.

Hopefully someone else will have better ideas.

I would check battery first. Is it an AGM battery, like a Hawker?

Recheck relays.

Sometimes starting a different way will change where the electrical loads are and provide a clue as to where the problem is. Having both gearbox in neutral and kickstand up helps insure that ignition system is getting good power. Also, you may have a bad clutch switch or bad starter button. Try starting by doing the following, gearbox in neutral, kickstand up, starter button in, but clutch released. Pull in clutch to activate starter, releasing starter button after it starts ( if we were to get so lucky).

Best of Luck

[waspp]

Make sure the battery connections are good. You stated the bike came with a new bat so maybe the terminals are not making good connection. Its odd that the bike died and won't even turn over, that to me points to some sort of battery issue. Good luck.

[SFSig]

Thanks for the input...

 

I'm not sure what kind of battery it is other than it's a "sealed" battery. I'll check to see what brand it is and post that here if it makes any difference.

 

I'm inclined to think that the battery is good, but I'll put a volt meter on it to be sure.

 

The part that I don't get is that it seems to be getting fuel (from the sound of the fuel system charging) and the starter is cranking well....

 

If the kickstand switch was stuck, and I was "in-between gears/false neutral", then would the starter still crank? I was at a stop sign when the engine died, but then I guess that wouldn't explain how I was able to ride down the block in the first place...

 

This is going to drive me nuts.

[Bbennett]

Sounds like a weak battery. The V11 will not necessarily charge if just running around town at low RPM or idling alot. Try bump starting the bike in 2nd gear if convenient, this will let you start the motor without having the battery power to turn the starter that turns the motor....

 

But really, just put the thing on a trickle charger and try tomorrow.

 

Bob

[SFSig]

Thanks again!

 

One other thing I forgot to mention that may be critical (I'm sorry for the run around!!!)

 

At the stopsign where I said the bike "died" it didn't actually die. I remember being at the stopsign and then the bike on its' own started revving fro no reason. It got up to like 2500 before I killed it with the engine cut off switch. I pulled over and checked the throttle cable for being sticky or stuck, but it was pretty smooth... Could this be the reason?

 

I mean, maybe the fast idle lever or throttle or fuel delivery system isn't working?

 

Thanks for your patience and understanding... I should have known better than to try and post while riding backwards on the train on a blackberry.

[jrt]

I'd also suggest you check the battery. Mine clicks like that when the battery is low. From there, check for a weak ground (really), then check the solenoid, relays, and progressively more complicated stuff.

Dunno what to say about the idle- was it cold out?

[gstallons]

I assume you do not know what the fast idle system looks like at the throttle body. You can search through the posts on synchronzing throttle bodies. You will see where the fast idle cam touches the throttle lever to hold open the throttles. At the idle position you want clearance on this lever. Look at this linkage until you are satisfied everything is OK or in need of adjustment.

[fotoguzzi]

toggle that kill switch a little.. if the relays are Seimens I would scrap them right now.. get replacements from dpguzzi.com.

if not the battery could it be the SS switch or kill switch? I don't think the motor would turn over if they failed?

did someone close the fuel tap?

[Dan M]

Thanks for the input...

 

I'm not sure what kind of battery it is other than it's a "sealed" battery. I'll check to see what brand it is and post that here if it makes any difference.

 

I'm inclined to think that the battery is good, but I'll put a volt meter on it to be sure.

 

The part that I don't get is that it seems to be getting fuel (from the sound of the fuel system charging) and the starter is cranking well....

 

It sounds like a discharged battery to me too. Although in your first post you say all you got was a succession of rapid clicks but in this post you say the starter is cranking well.

 

Which is it?

 

There can be plenty of power to run the lights and fuel pump but the starter draws a great deal more.

 

If it is clicking rapidly, you probably wore the battery down by repeated starts then didn't run it long enough of at high enough RPM to get it to charge back up. That rapid clicking is coming from the starter solenoid. That tells you the power is making it there (rules out all of the switches) but you just don't have enough umph to crank it.

 

As others have said, put it on a charger for several hours. And try not to start it 4 times before every ride.

[SFSig]

It sounds like a discharged battery to me too. Although in your first post you say all you got was a succession of rapid clicks but in this post you say the starter is cranking well.

 

Which is it?

 

There can be plenty of power to run the lights and fuel pump but the starter draws a great deal more.

 

If it is clicking rapidly, you probably wore the battery down by repeated starts then didn't run it long enough of at high enough RPM to get it to charge back up. That rapid clicking is coming from the starter solenoid. That tells you the power is making it there (rules out all of the switches) but you just don't have enough umph to crank it.

 

As others have said, put it on a charger for several hours. And try not to start it 4 times before every ride.

 

Happy New Year and thanks again for all the input.

 

So I guess I wasn't clear (even in my own mind) about what clicking vs. cranking was. I spent some time with the bike and it's definitely not cranking; it is clicking a lot though.

 

I measured the battery with a volt meter and it first read 12.4 then 11.6 with the ignition on. I then tried to start it up and it did a half crank and then just clicks.

 

I then proceeded to try and start it four plus times... hahahaha

 

Then I read the battery with the meter again, but this time the battery was down to 11.7 cold and 10.1 w/ the ignition on...

 

Next step is for me to go out and get a battery tender.

[gstallons]

A fully charged 12v battery will read ( with a DVOM) 12.65v. After you have charged the battery, watch the battery voltage when cranking the bike. You don't want the voltage to fall below 11.3v.

[Dan M]

Remember, you can read 12.7 or more and not have a fully charged battery. You may be reading surface charge. If you are using a tender, give it at least 10 hours on charge before trying it again. The rapid clicking is certainly a sign of not enough battery power to hold the solenoid in. If you do get it to crank the cranking speed should be considered along with the voltage gstallons gave you.

Measuring during cranking, if voltage is 11 to 11.5 and the engine is cranking normally things are good. If the voltage is lower yet the the engine seems to crank OK the battery is likely to be a little weak. If the voltage is higher and the engine cranks slowly you have a faulty connection between the battery and the starter.

There can be an issue with the starter drawing too much amperage making the battery appear weak but it is not likely. You would need more testing equipment to isolate that trouble.

 

I'm confident after you completely charge that battery things will be good again.

[raz]

I had a newish battery that was damaged from over-torquing the terminals. Apart from that the battery was in great shape. Note the sympthoms: I could charge it to 100%. I could drive the full beam headlight no problem. Measuring the voltage (still driving the headlight) indicated AOK, as in 12.8 volts. But when I pressed the starter it just clicked (repeatedly, like a sleepy ringer). So I measured voltage (at the terminals) WHILE cranking. It went from 12.8 volts all the way down to 4 point something! As soon as I let go of the starter button it was up at 12.8 again.

 

Unfortunately the Hawker batteries have unintuitively weak terminals, they are M6 but if you torque them as you use to torque M6, they might break. This breakage will be internal to the battery and cause the above scenario but you can't detect it otherwise. I had only one option: replace the battery and obey the torque limits. And cry a little, cause these batteries are not cheap

[dlaing]

I'm not sure what kind of battery it is other than it's a "sealed" battery. I'll check to see what brand it is and post that here if it makes any difference.

Most batteries can be considered fully charged If they read 12.65V (Voltage should be read after resting for a few hours after riding or charging. Turn ignition key on and let fuel pump prime, do NOT start, then turn ignition key off, read battery terminals)

The reason the brand is important is because AGM batteries such as the Hawkers and the Spark 500 (OEM on early V11s) are not fully charged at 12.65V but at about 12.75-12.85V.

The reading is effected by temperature and battery brand.

 

Keep in mind, that just because it reads 100% charged, does not mean it is a good battery. (see Raz and Dan's posts above) You could have plenty of Volts, but not enough amps available because of battery damage.

We use Volt readings because they are easy.

 

 

See chart below at

http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/3681/so...erature2jq8.png

Notice that the thick red line represents a Hawker at 77F while the other lines and the chart represent other AGM batteries.