Why does Roper plate enable 4.5 quarts of oil?

[Molly]

Just trying to make sense of the 'common problems' detailed on this site. It states:

 

Oil pressure light goes on during acceleration- Models with the pump pickup towards the front of the sump can experience pump starvation during hard acceleration. This is made worse by the dipstick full mark being 0.69 inches lower than the actual oil level when refilling with 3.5 liters as specified by Guzzi, with the dipstick screwed in, as specified by the manual. Even with 4 US quarts, tests with an oil pressure gauge showed pressure dropping to zero at maximum acceleration in first gear on level ground. Installation of a Roper Plate and refilling with 4 quarts prevents this starvation. The Roper plate also permits refilling to 4.5 quarts for extra margin. Even with this, pump starvation may occur on long, hard, steep uphill climbs. An oil pressure gauge is a useful addition to monitor this and idle pressure. The oil pressure light switch only goes on if pressure drops to somewhere in the 2-5 psi range.

 

Why does the Roper plate mean you can pour in 4.5 quarts rather than 4?

 

By the way, I've recently moved to a place at the top of a long, steep hill... Now I'm really paranoid :-)

[pete roper]

So I ake it that this is an attempted piss-take to suggest once again that even though I have TRIED to explain a million times and at least a half dozen times on this board alone, in tedious detail WHY there is a problem with the un-baffled V11 'Broad sump' itteration of the Guzzi big block that I am trying to take people for a ride/rip them off/sell them snake oil/rampantly proffiteer at the expense of the gormless.

 

Look, I've explained it so many times I'm just 'over it' OK, you think it's snake oil, that's fine. tell yer mates how you 'Showed Me' or whatever it is you're trying to prove. Quite frankly I can't be arsed.

 

Pete

[Molly]

You can't be arsed? Well, **** you pal.

 

It was a simple, sincere question and I'm sorry you took offence. You didn't even need to reply if it bothered you. You could've left it for a member of this forum with better manners. I was simply wondering how the inclusion of an extra component would permit an extra .5 quart. What the **** was so wrong with that?

[pete roper]

What was wrong was it was phrased in such a way that it looked to me to be yet another know-nothing, unimaginative smartarse having a go. sorry, but over the years I've got a lot of it and i tend to snap pretty easily at the moment.

 

I suggest you do a search on the whole history of the plate and why I designed and recommend it, as I said there must be at least half a dozen pretty detailed explanayions on this board alone as to what the problem is and how a plate, mine or one of your own or someone elses design, addresses the problem.

 

As for the ability to add an extra 1/2 a litre of oil? The plate acts as a barrier between the spinning crank and the oil in the sump, therefore the distance between the crank and the surface of the oil in the sump becomes a non-issue. Yes, some of the oil that is draining back can be picked up by the cyclonic forces imparted to the gas in the case but this is minor compared to what will be whipped up and carried around if the frothy surface of the oil is directly exposed to those *winds*.

 

Actual pressurisation due to the reduced volume of the case will be a fraction of the 500cc or so removed by the addition of oil so the risk of seal damage is minimal.

 

As for the effects of accelerating steeply uphill for an extended period of time and the reason a plate with holes in it will eventually loose its benefits in such a situation? surely it isn't too hard to figure out???

 

Pete

[Molly]

Thank you.

 

Can I ask, are you still supplying these plates?

[pete roper]

If there is enough interest I'll do another run, looks like I might have five or ten interested parties at the momemnt which makes it worthwhile. Sorry if I seem crabby but if you do go back through the assorted threads on this issue you'll find I've taken a lot of flack from f#ck-knucles over many years. At the moment I'm watching someone I love dearly die in my home and, well, things aren't great. So if I seem testy it isn't only because I'm a miserable obstreperous bastard......

 

pete

[gstallons]

FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH.

 

I just installed one of these "windage trays" on my V11. I have looked at all of these on this site and thought it was too much to buy one. After thinking for about 1 minute I realized I didn't need to make a mistake in making one of these. Moto-Int. stocks and sells P.Roper mfd. plates. After getting it I realixed I was looking at a work of art.

Any mechanic who owns a Guzzi probably has one of these or similar devices in the crankcase of their bikes.

As I have stated in earlier posts: If you don't want one Pete is not pushing these things on anyone,if you want it, buy it. Peter's converts are not knocking on doors selling them.

p.s. Peter I do not know anything about your personal life. My prayers go out for you and yours.

[Guest ratchethack]

Molly, Pete has indeed described the whys, hows and wherefores of his plate dozens of times, covering every possible permutation I could think of (and more'n a few I couldn't think of) and has been generous enough and tolerant enough to repeat himself countless times for those who couldn't (or wouldn't) find answers to their Q's with the SEARCH utility.

 

As with any other effort of superior, genuine value and integrity, as a "reward" for Pete's uncommon generosity in terms of his own effort, which has got to be far greater than the relative pittance he's ever got (or will ever get) in return, to cover his time and expenses on this thing, he has suffered the usual slings and arrows of the usual supply of odious Philistines taking cheap shots with false accusations of charlatanism and fraud, based on ZERO experience and less than ZERO evidence. I sympathize with the man -- but such is life, the woods 'r always full o' mentally crippled fools (gormless or sporting a full load o' gorm -- they come in all flavors ), and waddayagonna do?

 

Here's a thread that was dedicated specifically to your concern about running up steep hills:

 

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?...Grades&st=0

 

FWIW, I've had my Roper Plate in my V11 Sport for 3 years and 2 months now. It works exactly as Pete has always said they have always worked on the "broad sump" motors. Nothing new here, and no surprises. Since installing it, I've NEVER AGAIN seen the low pressure idiot light come on from a hard launch. It's one o' those "install and forget it" kinda things. Since I installed mine, I've consistently run the oil level ~2-3 cm above the "high" mark on the dipstick (just under the level of the plate) with ZERO evidence of oil loss through excess windage via the breather/condenser/airbox.

 

For anyone interested, Pete has also gone to great lengths -- repeatedly -- to explain why his plate IS NOT a "windage tray". Yeah, it's important. If not, why would you do this in the first place? If you're concerned enough about your motor to consider installing the plate, this should be well understood, according to The Maestro, and I couldn't agree more. Again, SEARCH is your friend.

 

Now this is just me, but I never bother measuring the exact volume of oil coming out at an oil change, nor do I measure the exact volume going in. Other than making sure I always have more than enough for the job on hand before I drain the old, I can't conceive of why the exact volumes involved would ever be important. Since the volume that comes out is never all, tends to vary from one change to the next, and is always dependent on variables too numerous to mention, let alone be within anyone's control, I simply drop the old, put enough new in to bring it up to the level I want after running up to operating temp to "burp" the oil cooler by cycling the thermo-valve at least once, and back down to ambient again, and Bob's y'er Uncle.

[gstallons]

FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH.

 

I just installed one of these "windage trays" on my V11. I have looked at all of these on this site and thought it was too much to buy one. After thinking for about 1 minute I realized I didn't need to make a mistake in making one of these. Moto-Int. stocks and sells P.Roper mfd. plates. After getting it I realixed I was looking at a work of art.

Any mechanic who owns a Guzzi probably has one of these or similar devices in the crankcase of their bikes.

As I have stated in earlier posts: If you don't want one Pete is not pushing these things on anyone,if you want it, buy it. Peter's converts are not knocking on doors selling them.

p.s. Peter I do not know anything about your personal life. My prayers go out for you and yours.

 

My apologies. THis device is more of a baffle, seperator plate or something like that. I have it and would not have a bike w/out it.

[dhansen]

You can't be arsed? Well, **** you pal.

 

It was a simple, sincere question and I'm sorry you took offence. You didn't even need to reply if it bothered you. You could've left it for a member of this forum with better manners. I was simply wondering how the inclusion of an extra component would permit an extra .5 quart. What the **** was so wrong with that?

 

Molly

 

One of the hardest things about interacting amongst ourselves via computer forum is judging the character or intent of someone by a random posting. There isn't a more finer kind of fucktard out there than Pete. I hope you'll cut him some slack (not that he needs it though) this time and not be predjudiced by his reaction. Sometimes life gets in the way and it tends to cloud our civil nature.

 

The V11s have been around long enough now that just about anything and everything that can go wrong with them has and I'd venture to guess just about every issue with them has been fully covered here if not beaten to death. The search function is your friend and will usually turn up more info than you could ever hope for in trying to answer your questions. Once you've exhausted that route, feel free to ask away. There is always someone willing to jump in and set you straight.

 

Dennis. Still waiting for life to get out of my way.

[John in Leeds]

Interesting exchanges - I suppose when you dish some out you just have to be prepared to take a bit. I think both Pete and Molly can take care of themselves

[doug m]

pete; sorry to hear about your current situation at home, i was just wondering what the current price is, as i will probably take two.(might as well get it up on site again....).best regards,and much appreciated, doug

[Greg Field]

If anybody needs a plate before Pete finishes more, I have some in stock.

[dlaing]

For anyone interested, Pete has also gone to great lengths -- repeatedly -- to explain why his plate IS NOT a "windage tray". Yeah, it's important. If you're concerned enough to consider adding the plate, this should be well understood, according to The Maestro, and I couldn't agree more. Again, SEARCH is your friend.

My SEARCH turned up Pete saying the primary function is reducing shloppage and the secondary function reducing windage. I could not find where he said it is not a windage tray.

The primary schloppage function reduces oil starvation.

The secondary windage function helps reduce oil consumption, and theoretically improves Power/Efficiency.

Whatever you call it, it works at reducing oil consumption AND starvation!

Since all threads are useless without photos, here is a photo Dan Coronado took of the Ratchet assisted install of the Motomoda sheet

Best wishes to Pete in these trying times.

[pete roper]

For those in the US of A who want a plate I'd suggest giving Greg a call at MI and Todd may still have some at MPH as well.

 

For people elsewhere I'll do another run of 10 as I think that is just about covered now.

 

Price remains the same as it has for the last couple of years I think $150-ish AU plus postage.

 

Once again I apologise if I flew off the handle a bit, my bad, but I do have a bit of shit happening in my life at the moment and the odd paranoid 'Dummy Spit' is par for the course. Sorry for jumping down your throat Molly.

 

Thanks to all that PM'd me about Val. It's one of those things, when the last parent goes you know for sure, "We're next!" Some of the PNW gang met Val when we came over 'en-famile' about five years ago and know she was/is a game old bird, but her race is run and we're just waiting.............

 

Pete