Fuel injection conversion

[cycles4fun]

Hello everyone,

My Guzzi project this year is swapping a late model lemans fuel injected engine into my Tonti framed lemans 4. I have the complete engine with flywheel and clutch parts, coils, wiring harness, ECU, and throttle bodies. I still need to find a suitable fuel pressure regulator, fuel pump, throttle with cable, fast idle lever and cable, and who knows what else. The throttle bodies are also missing the linkage that connects to the two throttle assemblies as well as the TPS. Someone stripped off some of the linkage parts so I need a set of throttle bodies that I can rob the various linkage components. I would also entertain any thoughts from anyone who has performed a similar engine swap. Altough I'm very mechanically inclined, some insight before embarking on the project would be greatly appreciated. I know some may think I'm nuts and I should just get a spline frame lemans, which would be more cost effective, but I love my Tonti. I have been perfecting this bike for many many years and although I love the simplicity of Delorotos and a distributor, the thought of a new Lemans engine with a well sorted engine management system and fuel injection is to tempting. I'm not the kind of guy who can leave things alone and welcome your thoughts. Here is a photo of my bike.

B/R...Mike

 

 

 

 

[Guzzirider]

Looks great- and I bet its going to go great as well when you have finished her.

 

Good luck with the rest of the project- if you need any used parts try Pete @ Reboot spares

 

Reboot Spares link

 

Guy

[gavo]

Thats one very nice mk4

[gstallons]

Does your right hand go NUMB after 30 min. of riding?

[cycles4fun]

Does your right hand go NUMB after 30 min. of riding?

 

Actually Last year I spent a good amount of time reducing the throttle effort. I sourced a Tomaselli (spelling) Daytona throttle and had two custom cables made at Motion Pro with the proper curved end fittings. I also removed the outer return springs from the Delortos and installed normal coils inside. the end result is pretty nice. Definitely not anywhere as smooth as an EFI throttle but definitely tollerable. I was very close to purchasing some roller slide Kehin 41mm FCR's but thought I would try this first.

[cycles4fun]

Looks great- and I bet its going to go great as well when you have finished her.

 

Good luck with the rest of the project- if you need any used parts try Pete @ Reboot spares

 

Reboot Spares link

 

Guy

 

Thanks so much for the link. I just checked it out, what an awesome site!

B/R...Mike

[Guest ratchethack]

C4F, Todd Eagan at GuzziTech put a '02 LM motor in a Jackal Tonti frame about 5 years back.

 

Ed Milich, the other half of GuzziTech, owns a LM IV, and did some of the work on Todd's conversion.

 

IIRC, they were obliged to retain the 5-speed gearbox.

 

Photo's here:

 

http://www.guzzitech.com/thebikes/ToddsJackal.html

 

If you were to get in touch with Todd, I'm sure he'd be willing to give you some guidance.

 

Have fun.

[Skeeve]

IIRC, they were obliged to retain the 5-speed gearbox.

 

Yep, because the 4-shaft 6 speed has the output shaft lower & to the right of where it is on the 5-spd. It requires a longer shaft than a 5 spd too, iirc.

 

But I don't think having to live w/ the 5-spd slowed Todd down much...

[raz]

I don't get why anyone would need a six speed box in a street Guzzi. My five speed is higher geared than the V11 box (240 km/h at 8,000 rpm with a 70 profile tyre) and I still don't need (or even want) less difference between gears. Having lots of gears is a compensation for lack of torque, no?

 

I don't get the car industry's point either. Why the heck would I want a six speed manual box with the high end engines? That is where they are offered, not with the low end engines, where they actually could be of benefit. WTF?

 

But that's just me. Maybe I lack some understanding.

 

Hm, sorry for drifting away from the topic... Unfortunately you can't get spares for the TB assembly, only a complete assembly for a ridiculous amount of money. But the linkage should not be too difficult to build from more or less standard parts. Or suitable car parts. I heard, for example, some Volvo and Mercedes cars has ball joint sockets that can replace the plastic socket the OEM features.

 

The fast idle you can live without. Not that it's that hard to fix either. A clutch handle from an 1100 Sport or Centauro (or Cali I guess) will provide you with the lever, while still being cable clutch handles.

 

Fuel pump and pressure regulator (3 bar/44 psi) is standard parts you can find anywhere. A new regulator is more expensive than I would have guessed, but finding a used one shouldn't be too hard.

 

A Harley PF4C TPS will fit like OEM and while not gaving exactly the same characterstics, it will work fine. It's a LOT cheaper than Guzzi OEM (which is a PF3C).

[Skeeve]

I don't get why anyone would need a six speed box in a street Guzzi. My five speed is higher geared than the V11 box (240 km/h at 8,000 rpm with a 70 profile tyre) and I still don't need (or even want) less difference between gears. Having lots of gears is a compensation for lack of torque, no?

 

Well, having more gears means you've got a wider variety of options for maintaining a comfortable cruise rpm, AFAIC. And on the Guzzi, iirc, the 5th is a mild overdrive and the 6th an even higher overdrive, so they really end up just being used for the long, straight, boring bits...

[Guest ratchethack]

Well, having more gears means you've got a wider variety of options for maintaining a comfortable cruise rpm, AFAIC. And on the Guzzi, iirc, the 5th is a mild overdrive and the 6th an even higher overdrive, so they really end up just being used for the long, straight, boring bits...

My sentiments substantially -- make that precisely. Though that gorgeous torque spread certainly doesn't NEED all those ratios, it sure is nice to have 'em -- nicely spaced, too:

 

1st = 1:2.4

2nd = 1:1.7778

3rd = 1:1.3636

4th = 1:1.1111

5th = 1:0.9655

6th = 1:0.8519

 

Yep. Both 5th and 6th are overdrives thru the box.

 

Overall (engine to wheeel) thru the bevel drive in 6th = 1:4.1737

 

SOURCE: Service Manual, Moto Guzzi S.p.A. Tech Pub Cod. 01 92 01 31

[Keith Foster]

Hi Mike, a great looking bike! One question - what is the long braided line coming out of the bevel drive box? I realize it should be the vent, but why so long? Does it go to a catch can under the seat or something? Just wondering.

[fotoguzzi]

that bike looks pretty nice to be pulling the motor out for what 10 more HP? I get it tho, it's worth it for the light throttle alone.

I did a similar swap. I put a EV motor w/systems into the older Tonti frame. It fit fine but the tank will come very close to the rocker cover. I mounted the coils to the frame tube under the tank and put the fuel filter.reg.pump and some electronics in the battery space. because of the big CPU of the EV I didn't have room for the battery so it went under the tranny in place of the crossover. I am changing this arrangement this winter...you will probably have to use pod filters like I did, I was able to retain the intake tubes between the filters and manifold but I'm going to shorten them now..to complicate things further I grafted Convert running gear on.. It's a real hoot and has just the right amount of pep that the convert needed.

 

 

I'm now looking for a V11 sport motor and electrics for my next project, anyone?

[fotoguzzi]

oh yea, you need a spigot in the tank for return fuel, I had a nipple welded on near the top front of the tank. if you use one of the petcock spigots you'll need some kind of valve to keep gas from flowing backwards when you shut off.

[1100sport]

That's a very nice LM4.

Can you give us some details on the various mods?

I see some astrolite wheels, can we still get them today?

What kind of exhaust is that?

Tell us more about your Guzzi!!

Mathieu