Fuel injection conversion

[cycles4fun]

That's a very nice LM4.

Can you give us some details on the various mods?

I see some astrolite wheels, can we still get them today?

What kind of exhaust is that?

Tell us more about your Guzzi!!

Mathieu

 

The hose on the diff is indeed a vent and it terminates to a very small K&N filter in the rear cowl. Honestly its really unecessary but is a great conversation piece. This bike has been an ongoing project since 1996 when I picked it up. God where do I start! You asked so here you go. My goal was to improve and modernize it in every way possible without destroying its rich heritage. Starting with the chassis I braced the frame around the steering head, the swingarm pivot area, and braced the swingarm as well. Chrome moly was used and beautifully tig welded. I also modified the swingarm by notching it to gain approx 5mm more tire clearance for the wider wheels/tires without requiring any off-set. Frame was powder coated in red. The Astralites run modern radials in 350/17 front and 150/60 18 rear. Rim widths are 4' rear and 3.5' front. These wheels are amazingly light and have a profound effect on the suspension performance and handling. The front fork is a fully adjustable KYB sourced from a Yamaha YZF600 and reworked for this application. I machined off all the tabs and such and made a fork brace to mount the stock Guzzi fender. Even Guzzi guys never spot the fork swap.! I had to bore the triples 1mm as the KYB fork is 41mm. I also used the much lighter Yamaha axle and the excellent mono-block calipers squeazing 310MM iron discs. Prior to these I had 4 piston Brembo Goldline calipers and to be honest the Yamaha mono-blocks are far superior. Pressure is suppied by the adjustable Yamaha Nissin master cylinder and custom stainless lines I made up. This thing has awesome brakes with incredible bite and are very powerfull! The rear suspension is Ohlins and the rear diff was lightened by machining off the large stock flange. Handlebars are Honda VFR 750 modified to fit and are sporty without applying to much pressure on the wrists. I think its a very nice compromise. I also own a Triumph 675 Daytona so the Guzzi is my sport tourer. Corbin made me the seat on my stock plastic pan as opposed to the the very heavy fiberglass pan he normally uses. It took a couple times to get it to my satisfaction but I really like it now. He normally wont do a seat on the stock pan as it does not provide the necessary support but I convinced him otherwise. The fairing was sourced from Italy and I made all the hardware to attach it. The guages were moved off the steering stem to the fairing where they belong. I also had a custom tinted windscreen made up. The rear tail was cut down a bit to reduce the swooping look and I opened up the faux louvers on the side panels to make them functional vents. The paint colors are 851 red and 900SS graphite. The Graphite is carried over to the wheels and the triple trees as well. The exhaust utilizes Bub headers and Verlichi (spelling) muflers. Its loud, obnoxous, sounds killer on the rundown and I love it! The foot controls are Torossi with a modified shifter linkage to reduced travel. Lets move over to the electrics and engine. The charging system always sucked on this bike so a few years ago I updated it with a modern charging system from the newer guzzi's. What a difference!!! The car like stock battery has been replaced with a smaller gel battery in a custom box I made in aluminum. I think I dropped the weight in half and it charges like a normal bike now! There are numerous other details I wont bore you with. The transmission is a stock Lemans SE close ratio with strait cut gears. The engine sports 94mm forged pistons run in Nikasil liners. (1082 with stock 78mm crank, 10.57:1 measured compression ratio). Please excuse any spelling errors. Heads are big valve lemans with 47mm intake and 40 Exhaust with titanium retailers and Raceco springs and mild porting. Pushrods are chrome moly. Carbs are 40MM delortos with K&N filters and custom cables and throttle. Cam is stock B10 with aluminum timing gears. Flywheel and ring gear are heavily lightened and the clutch uses the updated deep spline gear. Now the ugly....last year I completely went through the bottom end. I had the crank machined .010" under, had it re-nitrided, balanced, the works! I ran it for approx 700 miles fault free, changed the oil with synthetic and rode it to the Malibu Ralley (approx 500 miles). At about the 1/2 way point I noted the oil light would flicker at idle. Oh crap! I shut her down and checked the oil and it was full. Now my head was spinning with all the possibilties. The most logical was the oil pressure switch was faulty and I kept riding. Another hundred miles and now the lamp was on steady at idle and had to rev to 2000 rpm to go out. This is not good! I should have called it quits right there. Stubborn and in the middle of knowhere I kept going. It just kept getting worse and now required reving above 3k to extinguish the lamp. In addition to this I noted my charging system was now failing! By nightfall I made it to the ralley and arrived throughly discusted! Next morning I dropped the pan to make sure the filter was still in place and the pressure relief valve was not stuck. Everything looked fine! A very friendly guy loaned me a new oil pressure switch for testing and initially it seemed good, however as the oil heated up the pressure soon dropped. At that point I was done and called the wife to bring down the trailer. Bottom line I'm sick of dicking with this engine and want to move on. When I got home I found both the charging and oil pressure problems. Seems the front crank bearing is completely wiped out and allowed the rotor to contact the field coils wiping them out as well. I let the thing sit for months and now I'm ready to give it another go. I have not taken it apart yet to find the root cause but I will soon. My fantastic Guzzi dealer friend sold me an engine from a 2002 lemans with 1800 miles on it. I can go two ways with this. 1) drop it in and run carbs and a stand alone ignition system. 2) run the EFI fuel and ignition. The EFI conversion will surely be a pain in the ass and very time consuming. Is the weber system worth all the trouble? I read endless tuning issues on this forum. I could get a set of 41mm Kehin FCR's with roller slides and a stand alone ignition. The kehins have EFI like throttle pull. This would perform very well and still be old school cool. I'm on the fence!!!!! Please give me your thoughts? Pros/cons. Power wise I think it it will be very close as my lemans pounded out 82 rear wheel HP.

[1100sport]

Whaou that is an impressive job you did on this bike. In its current state of tune, your engine actually performs better that a v11 engine in stock form (typically a v11 will do around 75bhp at the rear). It comes as a no surprise since your engine has the same top end with a larger displacement and higher compression ratio. You could gain a significant amount of hps by fitting a sportier cam (B10 is very mild for your engine) and easily get about 90hps at the rear.

 

With all the work you've done, I would be tempted to repair your current engine rather than swap it with a v11 one. In any case, swapping an engine is a fairly time consuming job as well...

 

As for EFI vs Carb, I am biased toward carbs. I have owned EFI and carbed guzzis and have always prefered carbed, because they are more "mecanical" and "sensual". They suit the Guzzi spirit better in my opinion and, when properly tuned, perform as well as EFI ones. They are simple, reliable and very easy to tune.

The usual pb with carb is the throttle pull - but this can be arranged. On my 1100 sport (a carbed one!) I have tinkered with the carbs a lot and eventually chose to keep the dell ortos (although I switched to 41s) with the following mods:

- first there are 3 different return springs available - OEM 40 or 41 dell orto come standard with the strongest for safety reason. But when broken in, they can make do with the lightest one. That made a huge difference in feel on my bike.

- then the acceleration hose arrives directly at the top hat on the carb (without the OEM steel bend if you see what I mean).

- I fitted a dual cable tomaselly throttle

 

With these mods, my throttle is nice and smooth and it is something I don't worry anymore.

 

Another route is to go with flatside carbs - Mikuni 41 TMR or 42 HSR or Keihin 41 FCR. All of them will perform extremely well!

[fotoguzzi]

I have not taken it apart yet to find the root cause but I will soon. My fantastic Guzzi dealer friend sold me an engine from a 2002 lemans with 1800 miles on it. I can go two ways with this. 1) drop it in and run carbs and a stand alone ignition system. 2) run the EFI fuel and ignition. The EFI conversion will surely be a pain in the ass and very time consuming. Is the weber system worth all the trouble? I read endless tuning issues on this forum. I could get a set of 41mm Kehin FCR's with roller slides and a stand alone ignition. The kehins have EFI like throttle pull. This would perform very well and still be old school cool. I'm on the fence!!!!! Please give me your thoughts? Pros/cons. Power wise I think it it will be very close as my lemans pounded out 82 rear wheel HP.

If you got the electricals with the V11 motor it won't be that hard to swap in the whole works.. I would go that way.. unless you didn't get the CPU and others related components. the tuning issues do not seem to be endless to me and it's pretty easy to sync and set the TPS etc. I'm happy to not be using carbs anymore.

[cycles4fun]

If you got the electricals with the V11 motor it won't be that hard to swap in the whole works.. I would go that way.. unless you didn't get the CPU and others related components. the tuning issues do not seem to be endless to me and it's pretty easy to sync and set the TPS etc. I'm happy to not be using carbs anymore.

 

Thanks for the thoughts guys. I figured guys would be on both sides of fence on this one. I have pretty much everything needed for the EFI swap with a few exceptions that should be fairly easy to source. I have also mapped out in my head where the ECU and all the plumbing will go. I definitely want to go with the new motor as it makes nearly the same power and should be stone reliable. Plus its not even broken in yet! I know what will happen though, sooner or later I'll start screwing with it and end up in the same place in a few years! Carbs are definitely cool and very simple which definitely is a bonus. They only need gravity! I'm likely going to part out my old engine as the heads and cylinders are pretty valuable. Or better yet......I could keep it around for another project bike....see here I go again!!!!!

Mike

[fotoguzzi]

here's some pic to encourage you going the EFI route. I have the F pump under the TB's and the filter above, since then I moved it to a fab'd bracket behind the right side cover.

 

 

I made a brace to mount the regulator above the TB's

 

 

the whole EV fuse panel fit under right side cover, you'd have extra room w/the V11 fuses there.

 

[cycles4fun]

oh yea, you need a spigot in the tank for return fuel, I had a nipple welded on near the top front of the tank. if you use one of the petcock spigots you'll need some kind of valve to keep gas from flowing backwards when you shut off.

 

Very cool! I had a 1000SP in the same color. great idea on the return nipple. i was wondering how I would do that. Seems pretty strait forward. Was it worth the effort for the EFI or do think it would have been okay with modern flatslides?

[Skeeve]

I'm likely going to part out my old engine as the heads and cylinders are pretty valuable. Or better yet......I could keep it around for another project bike....see here I go again!!!!!

 

Since your heads already have the big valves & mild porting done... why wouldn't you move those to the new engine & sell on the stock v11 heads w/ the rest of your part out? Just seems you'd be losing the money you already put into them for no good reason...

 

Definitely switch to the new engine: it has the sportier V11 cam vs. your old B10. The trade off you make w/ going carb vs. EFI is in mileage; the EFI fuels better at idle/low rpms than carbs can [altho' they also tend to have the "herky jerky" at small throttle openings moreso than carbs.] If you ride your bike hard & fast, then the mileage isn't likely to be significantly different carb vs. EFI, and of course, Bernoulli never sleeps!

 

Great writeup, thanks for sharing your experiences!

[cycles4fun]

Since your heads already have the big valves & mild porting done... why wouldn't you move those to the new engine & sell on the stock v11 heads w/ the rest of your part out? Just seems you'd be losing the money you already put into them for no good reason...

 

Definitely switch to the new engine: it has the sportier V11 cam vs. your old B10. The trade off you make w/ going carb vs. EFI is in mileage; the EFI fuels better at idle/low rpms than carbs can [altho' they also tend to have the "herky jerky" at small throttle openings moreso than carbs.] If you ride your bike hard & fast, then the mileage isn't likely to be significantly different carb vs. EFI, and of course, Bernoulli never sleeps!

 

Great writeup, thanks for sharing your experiences!

 

Well I figured the V11 Lemans engine already makes the same or more power so why mess with it. Is the cumbustion chamber the same as the big valve heads? What are the valve sizes of V11 lemans heads. I figured the newer heads were optimized for the total package regarding the EFI/timing maps, compression ratio and such but I really dont know. I do know that the ports are very nicly finished for stock heads. They are way nicer then what my big valve heads started with. At this point I think I will stuff the engine in and go from there. Its looking like I will likely go with the EFI. Its going to take some work but in the end it should be a very nice runner. It already was fast enough and had killer torque with the B10. I have rode the newer Lemans and I really like the way they run. My bike is much lighter so it should acellerate even better. They seem much smoother, have great torque, start well in all temps, idle when cold, etc. I cant wait! I can always go back to carbs.

Mike

[fotoguzzi]

Very cool! I had a 1000SP in the same color. great idea on the return nipple. i was wondering how I would do that. Seems pretty strait forward. Was it worth the effort for the EFI or do think it would have been okay with modern flatslides?

in a heartbeat! I don't care if I ever have carbs again.. (I still have another old vert w/79k if I want a day to wear out my right wrist.)

 

here's the tank mod.

 

[Greg Field]

Awesome LM1000. It's fun to see one more highly modified than my own. If you part out the LM1000 engine, I'd like the top end.

[cycles4fun]

Awesome LM1000. It's fun to see one more highly modified than my own. If you part out the LM1000 engine, I'd like the top end.

Thanks Greg, I'll take that as a complement! This thing has been a love / hate relationship for years! Nobody in sound mind would spend the time I have in this bike! I guess I enjoy the challenge of constantly trying to make it better. I could easily replace it with something far superior and begin to sleep at night but I dont need to explain this to all you Guzzi guys as you all get it. You might hate it from time to time but nothing stirrs the soul like a Goose! Greg, tell me which way would you go, EFI or Carbs.

[gstallons]

The Geneva Convention outlawed twin Dellortos as a torture device.

For those who have never had the oppurtunity, the throttle on my 87 SE is close to your wrist falling asleep and Carpal Tunnel syndrome x 10

[cycles4fun]

The Geneva Convention outlawed twin Dellortos as a torture device.

For those who have never had the oppurtunity, the throttle on my 87 SE is close to your wrist falling asleep and Carpal Tunnel syndrome x 10

Funny! Yea mine was pretty brutal as well. In fact I could never get a grip to stay glued in place. Eventually it would always start to rotate. Couple that with the hard pull and it was pretty miserable. I improved it considerably with the a twin cable throttle, custom cables with properly angled cable ends, and tossing the external springs for internal ones. I dont know what springs I ended up with as I have learned on this site several exist, however the end result of my work is a very comfortable throttle pull nowhere near at hard as the stock set-up. I hear the Kehin FCR's are very smooth and approach EFI throttle body like pull.

[cycles4fun]

in a heartbeat! I don't care if I ever have carbs again.. (I still have another old vert w/79k if I want a day to wear out my right wrist.)

 

here's the tank mod.

 

 

Thanks for the excellent pic. Does it loop back down once it enters the tank or does the fuel just shoot strait upwards. This seems to be an excellent solution for the fuel return issue. Very clean, I like it!

[fotoguzzi]

Thanks for the excellent pic. Does it loop back down once it enters the tank or does the fuel just shoot strait upwards. This seems to be an excellent solution for the fuel return issue. Very clean, I like it!

the pic should be rotated, the tube points horizontal not up. Left side of foto is the top of tank. the tube goes straight in about an inch I think. it actually sprays in and hits the neck of the filler tube that goes a little ways into the tank.

If you do this have your welder fill the tank with argon so it won't blow up.