Why I should leave it to the Pros

[maggasp]

I just got back from a really nice ride this afternoon, and after I pulled into the garage, I thought I would increase the idle a bit by turning the idle screw on the left throttle body.

 

(The reason I did this is that when the bike is hot, and I pull in the clutch, the revs would dip just low enough to cause a sputter, or sometime a stall)

 

So I turned the idle screw 1/2 turn one way, and the revs went down, then tured back the other way 1 full turn and the revs went up. Great...not exactly. The bike idled at about 1200 revs for a couple minutes, then started to sputter like crazy. Now when I try to start it, it coughs, sputters, then dies. Next a really wierd thing, with the key off there is a small whirring motor that every 30 seconds or so, turns on and runs for a few seconds. Back behind the right hand throttle body somewhere. I assume it will run down my battery.

 

If anyone has any ideas as to what I have done, please help. I just put new tires on for spring and am really bummed at the thought of it sitting in a shop till hot August.

 

Thanks in advance.

[Guest ratchethack]

Sounds like classic hot over-lean symptoms to me. Some seem to suffer from it (mine does) and others not so much, depending on specific motor config and map. You need to keep the bike moving to avoid this in warm weather. "A couple of minutes" of idling while stationary after a long ride is far, far too long, and sets up the perfect hot over-lean scenario. All such adjustment and TB balancing in warm weather are properly done with a good fan on the motor (or fans -- I use 2). If you really want to get your foot into this topic in a spot you might regret later , take a gander at the current clusterfarge in process in the "engine oil temp sensor" thread.

 

That's sure to get you goin'. . .

 

If you have any ability and/or inclination to work on motors, I wouldn't let a little thing like this get in my way for a minute. An unknown shop would be the last place you'd ever find mine (not one wrench on it other than my own to date), but o' course, that's just me.

[raz]

That whirring sound is wierd. Did you try if the "emergency switch" mutes it? Maybe it's not a motor at all but vapor lock bubbling, which explains both issues.

[Guest ratchethack]

The whirring has to be the fuel pump, but why (or how) it comes on with the key OFF is beyond me.

[fotoguzzi]

you may have upset the throttle body sinc when you turned that screw.

[GuzziMoto]

If you remember where the screw was set, put it back. No, this is not perfect but should suffice to make it run. It sounds like you have a seperate issue going on with something, probably the fuel pump, running with the key off. A sticking relay might be causing this. If you have not already done so you may want to replace the 5 relays under the seat with higher quality units. Adjusting the idle on these bikes is not as simple as it is on old carb equiped bikes. I believe there is a way to set the idle mixture but you may need special tools. I have a Power Commander and use that.

You may want to sync the T.B's and set the TPS now.

[gstallons]

I just got back from a really nice ride this afternoon, and after I pulled into the garage, I thought I would increase the idle a bit by turning the idle screw on the left throttle body.

 

(The reason I did this is that when the bike is hot, and I pull in the clutch, the revs would dip just low enough to cause a sputter, or sometime a stall)

 

So I turned the idle screw 1/2 turn one way, and the revs went down, then tured back the other way 1 full turn and the revs went up. Great...not exactly. The bike idled at about 1200 revs for a couple minutes, then started to sputter like crazy. Now when I try to start it, it coughs, sputters, then dies. Next a really wierd thing, with the key off there is a small whirring motor that every 30 seconds or so, turns on and runs for a few seconds. Back behind the right hand throttle body somewhere. I assume it will run down my battery.

 

If anyone has any ideas as to what I have done, please help. I just put new tires on for spring and am really bummed at the thought of it sitting in a shop till hot August.

 

Thanks in advance.

Did you get all that?

If you want to call me and you have a Verizon cell #,call 270-841-1774.

p.s. I need a good excuse to ride somewhere.

[maggasp]

Thanks for the replies. A few more bits of info...

 

the rubber boots which connect the throttle bodies to the cylinders are slightly cracked. I never thought much of it, but it would make sense that this could be a source for the too lean mixture as air may be sucked in after the air flow meter. (does this theory seem sound?) Does anyone have a source for these boots and guidance on how to replace them? the removal and instillation does not seem very easy, would I need to remove the throttle bodies?

 

I tried to put the idle screw back to where I thought it was before, but this didn't seem to help.

 

Relays are an interesting topic. I never had issues with the Seimens relays, but from advice on this board, I replaced all of them two weeks ago with MGR-C20 relays. Could the new relay for the fuel pump be sticking and causing a fuel flood? If this is the case, the spark plugs may be fouled.

 

The power commander is something that I've been considering, not for performance benefits, but for smoothness.

[Guest ratchethack]

You can test for leakage of the TB boots by opening a propane torch (unlit!) while at idle, directed around the boots. If they're leaking, you'll get a noticeable rise in RPM. I bought a set to replace mine when I observed surface cracks, but haven't needed them yet (9 years and 35K miles). The surface cracks are just that, and the originals have withstood multiple removal and replacement without a leak.

 

Swap relays to test. I've used Bosch, Siemens, Tyco, GEI, and Omron.

 

Best to date (the only ones that haven't given me trouble) are the Omron relays available from John Mikowski, aka Ryland, Forum member.

 

Reliable and inexpensive. Tested and selected by a Pro Engineer and Guzzisti. IMHO, these are the way to go:

 

http://www.motratech.com/MGR-C20.html

[gstallons]

You can test for leakage of the TB boots by opening a propane torch (unlit!) while at idle, directed around the boots. If they're leaking, you'll get a noticeable rise in RPM. I bought a set to replace mine when I observed surface cracks, but haven't needed them yet (9 years and 35K miles). The surface cracks are just that, and the originals have withstood multiple removal and replacement without a leak. I've used Bosch, Siemens, Tyco, GEI, and Omron relays. Swap relays to test. Best to date (the only ones that haven't given me trouble) are the Omron ones available from John Makowski, aka Ryland, Forum member.

 

 

I like the (unlit) part!

[GuzziMoto]

There is a fuel pressure regulator that would prevent over-pressurization of the fuel system. But a TPS out of wack or throttle bodies out of sync or even a fuel pump that runs when it shouldn't and not when it should all could cause the symptoms you describe.

[luhbo]

...So I turned the idle screw 1/2 turn one way, and the revs went down, then tured back the other way 1 full turn and the revs went up. ....

 

There is no idle screw you could easily turn. There is only the white sync knob. Nevertheless, regardless wich knob or screw you've turned the one or other direction for half a turn, this would never explain why now the engine runs as bad as you've described it.

What about the weird whirr? Still there? I kinda liked the idea of Raz of noisy gas bubbles. Otherwise you'd have a more serious fault in the wiring somewhere, but how come?

 

I'd not touch the relais - they're good enough (new in your case), I'd not open the oil-temp-sensor thread - even the title is bullshit, and I'd not make things even worse than they actually are - by just jumping from one into the next thread and applying all you'll find to your poor lady. Look, I have 100.000 km on my Sport and still the Siemens relais built in. Because they do a good and reliable job. Others have tried out every relais they could find on the market and only one make seems to be good enough for them. That's a great story. Hey, you thread necromancers, why not let the oil-temp-sensor rest a bit and disgrace the good old relais thread a bit instead

 

If you don't have the knowledge to DIY maintain your V11 then you better go and see an average mechanic who is keen on working on a bike, he'll fix it for you and maybe he'll also show you how things work. Try the next Japan shop, for instance. At least over here nearly all of those guys have 1A equipement, 1A training on the job, and a good motivation to get one of those famous bikes under their fingers. For a trained and experienced mechanic it makes not much difference whether he works on a lorry or on a bike. They know how to measure sensors or how to synchronise carbs/flaps or how to track down a shortage. And he'll tell you when something is to complicated for him (getting parts or special tools e.g.)

 

Guess how many trained mechanics are writing in internet forums, or, same question, how many professionals are playing in amateur bands?

 

Hubert

[GuzziMoto]

I'd not touch the relais - they're good enough (new in your case), I'd not open the oil-temp-sensor thread - even the title is bullshit, and I'd not make things even worse than they actually are - by just jumping from one into the next thread and applying all you'll find to your poor lady. Look, I have 100.000 km on my Sport and still the Siemens relais built in. Because they do a good and reliable job. Others have tried out every relais they could find on the market and only one make seems to be good enough for them. That's a great story. Hey, you thread necromancers, why not let the oil-temp-sensor rest a bit and disgrace the good old relais thread a bit instead

 

If you don't have the knowledge to DIY maintain your V11 then you better go and see an average mechanic who is keen on working on a bike, he'll fix it for you and maybe he'll also show you how things work. Try the next Japan shop, for instance. At least over here nearly all of those guys have 1A equipement, 1A training on the job, and a good motivation to get one of those famous bikes under their fingers. For a trained and experienced mechanic it makes not much difference whether he works on a lorry or on a bike. They know how to measure sensors or how to synchronise carbs/flaps or how to track down a shortage. And he'll tell you when something is to complicated for him (getting parts or special tools e.g.)

 

Guess how many trained mechanics are writing in internet forums, or, same question, how many professionals are playing in amateur bands?

 

Hubert

I'm glad your Siemens relays are still going. On my wifes bike, one week after we bought it, the bike stopped running leaving her stranded. A friend of mine, who works for Siemens, picked her and the bike up in his truck. They popped the seat to check out the battery. He saw the Siemens relays and said "there's your problem right there". The bike went to the dealer, who new what was wrong before the bike even got there based on the symptoms. Swapped out the relays and the bike fired right up. We have learned to carry spare relays with us whenever we travel.

I agree the bikes are simple, but you do a better job of setting it up if you are used to Guzzis and have the right tools (software as well as hardware). Take what you can get but I would rather a good Guzzi mechanic worked on mine then a good mechanic, and I would go to a Harley mechanic before a Japanese brand mechanic.

You may want to figure out what knob you turned, but if you put it back about where it was the bike should run acceptably. You may have another issue going on.

[fotoguzzi]

(The reason I did this is that when the bike is hot, and I pull in the clutch, the revs would dip just low enough to cause a sputter, or sometime a stall)

I have never heard of this.. the motor has always reved up when pulling in clutch.

[helicopterjim R.I.P.]

You can test for leakage of the TB boots by opening a propane torch (unlit!) while at idle, directed around the boots. If they're leaking, you'll get a noticeable rise in RPM.

 

Does this work every time?