The 8V cam recall: Pt 1

[Paul Minnaert]

you must be lucky in the UK, a modern markting department as importer. I can imagine that Piaggio with the Vespas likes that, but more is needed to sell bikes in long term.

[belfastguzzi]

Why not? For f@cks sakes. It's not a huge job. The factory will pay us about 3 hours per bike I think. I'd guess that after I've done a couple I could probably knock one over in less time than that.

I was saying that other dealers wouldn't want to do it, because of my experience of trying to get warranty parts through dealers in England, when at the time there wasn't anyone dealing/servicing locally. Because I bought the Scura in England, I had parts ordered by that dealer: he posted them to me, I did the work, he claimed the warranty time allowance, everybody happy. But then when I tried to get the rear axle spacer and some bits and bobs (remember the episode of wrongly sized axle spacers being fitted by MG) I had this same experience of not being able to get help or a response (from my original English supplier). The order was lost, records were lost, parts were lost in transit from Italy etc etc allegedly. So that's when I contacted some other well-known English workshops to ask if they could supply. They wouldn't touch it – for the reason that you have given above. In the end I got the parts (just a simple little steel tube of course ): more than a year after I placed the order. Well yes, I just made up my own fix for the short spacer – but it's the principle of the thing. I think Anyone should be able to get such a simple part immediately, not after a year.

 

Dealership here has been tossed around like a hot potato in the past few years. Practically speaking, there really hasn't been a dealer, certainly not with history - knowledge - experience. The current dealer, where I bought the Griso, only took the marque on relatively recently. Since I bought the Scura, about 5 years ago, this is the 4th! dealership here that MG has moved to. The others dropped it.

 

In fact your example of the dealer-service agent position on warranty work is the type of thing that I had in mind and why I thought they wouldn't want to look at this. But you say any dealer is obliged to do the work, so maybe this would indeed be regarded in a different light. And Guzzirider indicates that should be the case too.

Practically speaking, it's a bit mad to consider transporting an immobile bike across the water to get a small piece of work done. Hopefully it will not come to that. I'm sure the end result will be that at some indeterminable date, the local dealer will have to do the work. I'm sure you understand though, when I add that my problem with that – is that I just don't trust them now.

 

:!: "Lor' luv a duck!"

[gstallons]

That movie (w/ Roddy McDowell) was crazy!

[belfastguzzi]

Back to the bits: so what I called the 'sleeves' are what Guzzi calls the 'bowls'.

Then they are replaced in the recall. Part no 13 in the diagram? EDIT Parts no 12 and 13?

Is the 1200 parts doc available on the web? I have the 1100 Griso parts file.

 

I have edited my main post (the one with the pics) now that it seems the sleeves are the bowls. My next question about that is:

are 'the tappet bowls' actually the combination of the sleeve and the pushrod together as a set? I hope so, as the replacement part is the tappet bowl and there is no separate rod replacement. It's a pity that MG don't include a photo of these parts in their service document.

 

OK ANOTHER EDIT

I see now. I have always thought of tappets as the part of the rocker arm that does the bashing.

So that's where the confusion has come from.

Here (and in normal 21st Century tech-life) the tappets being talked about are the little push rods or perhaps the combination of the rod and the sleeve that they are in. I know Pete already said it, but I didn't grasp it until I had read the posts a number of times and looked more at the diagram and the photos. Sorry

 

Once all this becomes clear, I think I'll do a sticky to post up.

 

 

BTW, do you like my telephone directory feeler gauge in the photo!

Is that the amount of powdered steel that is now washing around in the motor's system?

Maybe the whole issue is just some weird optical illusion.

[luhbo]

...

BTW, do you like my telephone directory feeler gauge in the photo!

Is that the amount of powdered steel that is now washing around in the motor's system?

....

 

If those parts are so soft, is it always necessary to exchange the cams as well? I hope you'll get the cams paid as the recall was planned, but just in case, you know. It looks as if the cams can be pulled without dismounting the whole bike/engine. So they could be checked easily.

 

Hubert

[belfastguzzi]

... If it was mine I could't wait to take the top of to see what is wrong, on the other hand, you won't give them anything as excuse for not covering it ith warranty. How many miles does it have?

Yes Paul, I was sorely tempted. I actually had the spanner on the first nut, but in the end I couldn't turn it as I was afraid that it would be used as a reason to invalidate the warranty. I really want to see what is in there, though.

The engine only has 2,600 miles on it.

It's been noted elsewhere that most failures happen in 2,000 – 5,000km.

[richard100t]

I remember a few years ago I was at my local dealer & he had a cam sitting on his shelf that was pulled from a california. It had no lobes left at all to speak of If I remember rightly the bike had only done a few thousand miles too. I'm surprised that Guzzi didnt learn from that lesson a few years ago. If I bought a new bike for over $13k & had to leave it sitting in the garage all summer while waiting for parts they would have to buy it back from me.

[belfastguzzi]

Ah ha

found these

 

That clarifies things, such as 'what the tappet bowl is' and the foot that Pete mentioned.

So then it looks like the bowl bottom wears away and gets replaced in the recall, but the rod is protected by the foot, or bottom, and so it isn't replaced.

But what if the foot, or bowl bottom, is worn through? Is the tappet rod hard enough to withstand damage?

Well, the answer could be that as I conjectured above, the tappet rod is supplied along with the bowl.

 

Now that I know what I'm looking at, I want to open the thing up and peer inside again.

[pete roper]

Ah ha

found these

 

That clarifies things, such as 'what the tappet bowl is' and the foot that Pete mentioned.

So then it looks like the bowl bottom wears away and gets replaced in the recall, but the rod is protected by the foot, or bottom, and so it isn't replaced.

But what if the foot, or bowl bottom, is worn through? Is the tappet rod hard enough to withstand damage?

Well, the answer could be that as I conjectured above, the tappet rod is supplied along with the bowl.

 

Now that I know what I'm looking at, I want to open the thing up and peer inside again.

 

 

Ah, Ok. I see where the confusion was coming from. when people talk about 'Setting the tappets' because the adjusters are on the rockers you assumed that those bits were the tappets. No. The tappets are the bits reffered to as the 'Bowls' that the pushrods sit in.

 

Yes, if the foot wears completely away the pushrod will drop out. I think in the one that I saw pics of that had been ridden to death this is what happened. The rod jammed against the cam lobe an dthe cam sprocket shattered and the chain snapped. What I couldn't understand is how ANYBODY, no matter how mechanically inept, could keep riding a machine to that point of destruction, it would of been incredibly noisy!!! As long as the pushrods are untouched though they should be OK. Any doubt? Slap in a warranty claim.

 

Pete

[belfastguzzi]

Picture from mag article. Thanks to Paul M.

[pete roper]

Picture from mag article. Thanks to Paul M.

 

Looking at them I hardly think it fair to call them pushrods. Dumb-bells for squirrels more like

 

Pete

[belfastguzzi]

Looking at them I hardly think it fair to call them pushrods. Dumb-bells for squirrels more like

Dumb bowls!

[pete roper]

Dumb bowls!

 

 

OK, I'll pay that one.

 

Pete

[mike wilson]

Is that the amount of powdered steel that is now washing around in the motor's system?

 

That is something I would be very concerned about.

 

There is a Guzzi dealer (in reality, just another box shifter) about five miles from me. If there is anything you need that you can't get over there, let me know.

[pete roper]

That is something I would be very concerned about.

 

It's one of the reasons I'm not taking mine out for long runs at the moment. Once I had ascertained that there was a real chance that there was something wrong with the build quality and perhaps a design fault as well, (I'm perplexed hat the tappets are truly 'Flat' with no seeming radiusing and the cams don't seem to have any compensating measures to keep the tappets spinning??) I decided I wanted to change mine BEFORE they had a chance to go tits.

 

It's not so much that any swarf and particulate matter is laible to damage bearings and the like, they are adequately protected by the oil filter. The problem is that there are two oil pumps. one for lubrication and one for cooling. They are both BEFORE the filter and only the delivery side for the lubrication is, I believe, filtered. That means that the oil that goes to the cooling jets is un-filtered and particulate matter *could* block them. In theory at least.

 

Certainly on any bike where the cam/tappets have failed my bare minimum would be to drop the sump to see what is in there. I have to say that I think the idea of simply flushing the motor with a couple of litres of oil is absurd. In cases where damage has been extensive and the machine has been ridden to death I'd want to check the oil pump too unless somene could convince me they had seen enough faied motors with no pump damage that it wasn't needed.

 

Pete