The 8V cam recall: Pt 1

[gstallons]

The house was burgled. Took laptops, guitars, usual electrical goods, car – and a load of keys including motorbikes.

We were asleep upstairs.

 

So new locks are needed on house, bike, other car...

 

 

If you have one remaining key to the old lock/cylinder, keep it and sell it to someone (out of your area) who might need it.

[mike wilson]

The house was burgled. Took laptops, guitars, usual electrical goods, car – and a load of keys including motorbikes.

We were asleep upstairs.

 

So new locks are needed on house, bike, other car...

 

Reminder to self: _never_ go for a ride with BFG.

[belfastguzzi]

Here is the damage.

 

The tappet bowl is severely scraped, gouged and generally worn. The whole of the bowl foot has been worn in a bumpy concave shape and is worn away by about half its thickness!

The cam lobe is also clearly gouged, scraped and worn.

 

According to Guzzi, an oil flush is enough to put things right, as far as the liberated gouged metal is concerned. I hope that they are as wise and correct as they think.

 

 

 

 

 

[gstallons]

Would those jackasses (that recommended the flush only) let someone do that service to their bike after this repair ?

[pete roper]

Here is the damage.

 

 

 

 

While the cam and tappet wear are obvious and extreme what worries me more is the state of the cam bearings surfaces. These are good, High Res pics and to me it looks as though there is a fair amount of damage to the bearing surface of the camshaft. I don't suppose you were allowed to look at the bearing surfaces in the 'Scaffold'? To me it looks as if the cam bearings have been quite severely damaged, in all probability by shit that has gone right through the lubrication system and has now embedded itself in the alloy bearing surface of the 'Scaffold'. this will, effectively, turn the scaffold into a bench grinder which will then destroy the new cam bearings as well.

 

Also, if the oil is from the same pump that delivers oil to the bottom end then the mains and big-ends will be similarly stuffed.

 

The idea that a simple 'Flush', (Without even taking the sump off!) is going to be adequate in this situation is insulting to the inteligence of anybody with even the most rudimentary understanding of lubrication theory. It sucks. If it were mine I'd be screaming from the rooftops.

 

No doubt by saying that publicly I'll put myself even further on the outer with the powers that be with Guzzi and the 'Sky is falling' retards who can't separate cause and effect but really I can't be arsed any more. I really like the new motor, I just think it's been #@$&@#@ over by beancounters and its reputation is being rubbished due to poor QC and cheap buy-ins from the lowest bidder on parts and now they are hoping that they'll be able to hide behind an inadequate repair that will hopefully get the bikes out of warranty.

 

I'm sickened, it stinks.

 

Pete

[Paul Minnaert]

The bearingsurfaces look rough, but hard to tell from the pictures. Interesting is, started this with the cams or tthe tappets?

[pete roper]

The bearingsurfaces look rough, but hard to tell from the pictures. Interesting is, started this with the cams or tthe tappets?

 

The virtually undamaged cam I tested came in at 60Rw. The tappet? 39Rw. Is that the only problem? who knows, but having no offset on the cam/tappet face and insufficient, (if any!) radiusing doesn't help.

 

Pete

[belfastguzzi]

...... they are hoping that they'll be able to hide behind an inadequate repair that will hopefully get the bikes out of warranty.

 

I'm sickened, it stinks.

It's hard for me to know how to proceed, in a manner that is appropriate and justified.

I know how I feel. I have a Scura sitting here with a 'disintegrating clutch/flywheel' issue that is still being swept under the carpet by Piaggio/Guzzi. I have bought another expensive new Moto Guzzi and had nothing but atrocious service from the very start. Now, partly because of the lack of Customer Care/Service, I'm in this situation with an engine clearly damaged because of defective original parts.

 

I feel that the situation has not been resolved in a satisfactory manner.

I feel that the Guzzi-Piaggio system has not been helpful or caring and that their insistence that an oil flush is all that is required, well, as Pete says – it stinks.

 

With ever increasing ease of world-wide communication, things can't be hidden the way they used to be, even a few years ago (eg Scura clutch). I want to press for a replacement bike, or engine, or they can take the bike back and give me the money.

 

Should I proceed as an individual, over this one case;

or should I make it a 'world-wide' issue, gather opinion and make publicity (which will reflect badly on Moto Guzzi)?

 

David

[pete roper]

It's hard for me to know how to proceed, in a manner that is appropriate and justified.

I know how I feel. I have a Scura sitting here with a 'disintegrating clutch/flywheel' issue that is still being swept under the carpet by Piaggio/Guzzi. I have bought another expensive new Moto Guzzi and had nothing but atrocious service from the very start. Now, partly because of the lack of Customer Care/Service, I'm in this situation with an engine clearly damaged because of defective original parts.

 

I feel that the situation has not been resolved in a satisfactory manner.

I feel that the Guzzi-Piaggio system has not been helpful or caring and that their insistence that an oil flush is all that is required, well, as Pete says – it stinks.

 

With ever increasing ease of world-wide communication, things can't be hidden the way they used to be, even a few years ago (eg Scura clutch). I want to press for a replacement bike, or engine, or they can take the bike back and give me the money.

 

Should I proceed as an individual, over this one case;

or should I make it a 'world-wide' issue, gather opinion and make publicity (which will reflect badly on Moto Guzzi)?

 

David

 

Mate, as per the PM. Anything I can do to help I will, chances arewhat I'm going to be saying will make me 'Persona Non Grata' with Piaggio, I'm execting to be given the arse as a troublemaker soon anyway, the importer here has stopped replying to my calls so the end is probably nigh.

 

A shame. I love the marque, I even like the new engine design, I just hate seeing everyone from MAndello to the end purchaser getting given the digit by a corporate entity that puts short term profit over long term gain.

 

You should get a new engine, the rest of the bike is fine but the engine is scrap. Yes, they could salvage the rods, the timing gears and the dummy shaft and the heads themseves are probably fine. The rest is most likely scrap, but what would I know? I'm just a mechanic from Oz. The Gurus from the factory have spoken. who am I to question their wisdom?

 

Pete

[belfastguzzi]

... but what would I know? I'm just a mechanic from Oz. The Gurus from the factory have spoken. who am I to question their wisdom?

 

Pete

yes, and I'm just a wee customer from the back of beyond far out on the north-west fringe of Europe.

 

– That's what they think. But this is 2009, not 1909 or 1999, and in this day and age, no company can afford to think like that.

[Guzzirider]

I would write to the importers and inform them you are dissatisfied with their proposed repair, and ask them to reconsider and fit a new engine, or failing that, a full refund in line with your rights as a consumer. You could also mention you are happy to help MCN write an article on the 8V recall issue, and make public the way you are being treated. Send it recorded delivery and state that you are keeping copies of all correspondence in case you need to take legal action.

 

Make it much less hassle for them to simply give you a new motor- I know you should not have to go to all this trouble but making yourself a big pain in their arse will hopefully make them change their mind.

 

Hope you get it sorted.

 

Guy

[chris a]

Hate to say this Guys but the after sales service is just as bad in the south of france , even over the whole territory.In general here the only guzzi related businesses who are any good are the ones run by enthusiasts - sound familiar pete !!???

And i 'd say that the recall stuff is again in the hands of the marketingor accounts dept rather than the designe engineers at the factory!

A lot of the lads over here are totally gutted at the recent 30% discounts been given out on the new bikes as it's totally bolloxed the second hand prices they were anticipating...and so the cock ups pile up .

[mike wilson]

At present, it seems you have very little to lose by going to a reputable (by which I mean someone with huge numbers of letters after their name, who can look directly at the stuff - no disrespect to anyone here) engineer and buying a professional opinion.

 

If that comes back suggesting engine replacement, take that to the importer. Point out that your next port of call is the no-win, no-fee shop.

[Greg Field]

Wow. Look at all the damage to those cam journals. Almost certainly the bearing surfaces on the cam boxes are packed with schrapnel. They are not replaceable, save by replacing the entire rocker box. I'd bet your rod bearings and crank are damaged, too.

[pete roper]

Wow. Look at all the damage to those cam journals. Almost certainly the bearing surfaces on the cam boxes are packed with schrapnel. They are not replaceable, save by replacing the entire rocker box. I'd bet your rod bearings and crank are damaged, too.

 

No 'Almost' about it Greg. The whole motor is scrap bar the heads, and they'd need rebuilding.

 

Pete