Alternative ignition systems

[cycles4fun]

I'm looking for an alternative stand alone ignition system that will trigger off the cam position sensor on the V11. I'm using a V11 in a Tonti and scrapped the idea of running the EFI and prefer to run carbs. Obviously I need a solution for the ignition. I know of IgniTech, however I want to explore all options before jumping in. Does anyone have any practical experience with alternative ignitions and willing to share their experiences? Thanks

[guzzi323]

I'm looking for an alternative stand alone ignition system that will trigger off the cam position sensor on the V11. I'm using a V11 in a Tonti and scrapped the idea of running the EFI and prefer to run carbs. Obviously I need a solution for the ignition. I know of IgniTech, however I want to explore all options before jumping in. Does anyone have any practical experience with alternative ignitions and willing to share their experiences? Thanks

The stock ignition/fuel injection box will continue to work with the TPS and injection bodies unplugged. I've been running Mikuni HSR42's on my bike for about a year with this.

You can't easily change the ignition timing (mine still has some detonation) with this set up but if all you want is the stock timing it will work.

 

johnk

[chris a]

The crank /alternator mounted ones from either Silent Hektik or ZDG should work .

Another possibility would be to contact cliff jeffries Myecu who might be able to help.

[raz]

Another possibility would be to contact cliff jeffries Myecu who might be able to help.

His Rec-Ignition seem to be pulled from his web site so I wonder if he stopped selling it? Google found the page though: http://www.jefferies-au.org/MyECU/MyIgn.html

 

I doubt you can use the V11 sensor but it's definitely a better idea to contact him than to take my word for it

[cycles4fun]

Thanks guys. Using the stock ECU is an interesting possibility and also opens the door for EFI later on down the road if I decide to go that direction. How does the stock ignition deal with load/temp? I figured it needed at least the TPS and cylinder head temperature sensor unless its just a simple RPM based advance map. Hey john how does your bike run with the Mukuni's compared to the EFI? Igntech offers the ability to alter the advance map and would give the option to tune out the pre-ignition. I really want FCR's but the cost is pretty brutal! Thanks

Mike

[Cliff]

The stock ignition/fuel injection box will continue to work with the TPS and injection bodies unplugged. I've been running Mikuni HSR42's on my bike for about a year with this.

You can't easily change the ignition timing (mine still has some detonation) with this set up but if all you want is the stock timing it will work.

 

johnk

 

John, you should be able to retard the ignition if you simulate a lot of throttle. A pot will give you some adjustability. Try and pick a similar resistance to TPS.

 

 

RecIgnition is currently for "ignition" type inputs. Hadn't thought of doing a version for EFI type inputs. It might be possible, code space is very tight.

[Francis Chartier]

I'm looking for an alternative stand alone ignition system that will trigger off the cam position sensor on the V11. I'm using a V11 in a Tonti and scrapped the idea of running the EFI and prefer to run carbs. Obviously I need a solution for the ignition. I know of IgniTech, however I want to explore all options before jumping in. Does anyone have any practical experience with alternative ignitions and willing to share their experiences? Thanks

 

Moto Spezial in Germany sells several models of Instruments with Electronic Ignition

 

http://www.moto-spezial.de/

 

Onlineshop, MotoSpezial Products, Instrument

 

I have one (Doppel Instrument with Ignition) on my 1999 V11 Sport with Dell Orto PHM 41. It runs with the genuine Guzzi/Marelli phase sensor.

I just had to reduce the gap under the sensor tip from 1.2 mm (as wrongly fitted at the factory) to 0.7 mm gap.

Runs fine.

[JR1967]

I'm looking for an alternative stand alone ignition system that will trigger off the cam position sensor on the V11. I'm using a V11 in a Tonti and scrapped the idea of running the EFI and prefer to run carbs. Obviously I need a solution for the ignition. I know of IgniTech, however I want to explore all options before jumping in. Does anyone have any practical experience with alternative ignitions and willing to share their experiences? Thanks

 

Just to revive this thread: does anyone know by how much a TPS changes the ignition curve and where in the rpm range?

I am running a P8 computer with carbs and was advised to set the TPS at full throttle to make it work. I would like to find out what would change if I would set it at for example 1/2 throttle; would the idle advance change or just the advance from a certain rpm and up?

 

It would be really great if somebody has access to the P8 ignition data for a California.

Any suggestions welcome!

Thanks, JR

[luhbo]

Get yourself a MyEcu, My15M or My8M. It's the cost worthiest and most entertaining thing you can buy for the mentioned purposes. Everything else like TPS cheating or whatever is nonsense. The MyEcu will work without any TPS at all (in this case), and you will know what it does, because you can watch it if you like.

Go for it, it's a pleasure.

 

Hubert

[Paul Minnaert]

from Czech replublic , ignitech makes an affordable solution that can use the cam sensor.

 

http://www.ignitech.cz/english/aindex.htm

[JR1967]

from Czech replublic , ignitech makes an affordable solution that can use the cam sensor.

 

http://www.ignitech.cz/english/aindex.htm

 

Thanks Paul,

I suppose you mean the TCIP4 ignition?

Do you have experience with those?

JR

[JR1967]

Get yourself a MyEcu, My15M or My8M. It's the cost worthiest and most entertaining thing you can buy for the mentioned purposes. Everything else like TPS cheating or whatever is nonsense. The MyEcu will work without any TPS at all (in this case), and you will know what it does, because you can watch it if you like.

Go for it, it's a pleasure.

 

Hubert

 

Thanks for your input, but just my two cents: My project is done on a very low budget, and taking the injectors off an engine and replacing them with carbs shouldn't require a new fancy ignition curve.

I planned on ditching the whole FI system plus wiring loom altogether and sell it, but I first want to get the jetting done properly for which I need to have an ignition curve that is reasonably accurate. Hence my question for any info on the P8 ignition curves. Guzzi being Guzzi I know the ignition curve in the Quota 1000 P8 must be pretty much the same as a Cali 1000 with electronic advance ignition, since the cylinder volume and valve sizes are the same. I found those curves for the Cali in on-line manuals and have tried to compare rpms and advance figures with a strobe on my Quota project. It's just a lot of work and not very accurate and it would be a lot easier to know what TPS setting would be the best for now and be done with it.

Once the jetting is done(I have installed a O2 sensor kit) than I can concentrate on front forks, rear suspension, swing arm angle, a better seating position, etc etc. It's a long term project that at the moment just.... kinda runs.

[raz]

Just to revive this thread: does anyone know by how much a TPS changes the ignition curve and where in the rpm range?

I am running a P8 computer with carbs and was advised to set the TPS at full throttle to make it work. I would like to find out what would change if I would set it at for example 1/2 throttle; would the idle advance change or just the advance from a certain rpm and up?

Do you mean the TPS is not connected to the throttle cable so you need to find a static compromise? It shouldn't be that hard to connect it (maybe temporary) to the throttle cable. I doubt WOT will be a good place to set it.

 

There are some logs in this post where you can see some Cali P8 ignition advance stuff, like that it seems to be about 10.5 degrees at idle. Maybe it could be of some value for you.

 

Edit: On a second thought, WOT is not that bad. Of course it will still consider the RPM.

 

This is my (1100 Sport) stock ignition map:

 

If I put carbs on and just set the TPS to WOT (that can be done by getting rid of the actual sensor and just shortening two of the cables, isolating the third), I would get 12 degrees at idle and 30 degrees at WOT. That should work, even if it's not very optimal. As you can see, if your map has any similarity to mine, you'd end up with too much advance if you set it on half throttle. YMMV.

[sharperdill]

I had the same question about a stand alone ignition. milli108 was kind enough to give me an answer. On a bike that he built, he suggested using one from Sachse. This is one of the best that I have seen and has 7 or 8 preprogrammed curves. I believe he was using Mikuni hsr42 carbs. He also stated that the Harley kit 42-18 is the carb kit he is using, and the jetting that comes with the kit is real close to being spot on.

 

I also wrote Guzzi323 about a carb conversion. This is the information that he gave me.

Here's the jetting I'm currently running.

Needle J8-8DDY1-97 3rd clip from top

Pilot Jet 35

Air Screw 2 1/4 turns out

Main Jet 145

 

The main jet is definitely a little bit on the lean side. I live in San Francisco and it's hard to find a good place to easily check the running on the main jet without getting arrested. I think a 150 main jet would be a better place to start.

I use an airbox with the lid opened up.

I find the set up is very sensitive to carb synchronization. If it's off, it'll spit back through the carbs at very small throttle openings

Best of luck to you.

 

I plan on doing my conversion this spring before its time to ride.

 

Hope this helps

[JR1967]

Thanks for the replies guys!

Sharperdill: I am already running on 36mm Dellorto's and use stock jets for a Cali 1000 as a base setting. Since the idle jets seem too lean for proper running I thought that my idle advance must be wrong with the TPS set at full throttle. And Raz's posted advance map confirms this.

Raz: Thanks for your elaborate answer; it looks like I should shoot for a TPS figure in the 53.9-68.2 degrees TPS range to get a proper full advance number like 33-34 degrees. Problem is that anywhere below that nothing seems to even remotely resemble a carbureted Cali advance curve. I am pretty confused..... My hope was to find out what % TPS setting would work and then replace the TPS with a resistor of the correct value. I did a lot of reading in the post that you mentioned but I am not much wiser concerning my problem. Any thoughts?

Thanks, JR