8V cam Pt 2: follow-up

[Greg Field]

It's a materials compatibility issue. The cast-iron tappets didn't play well with the steel camshaft. I remember when local guru Bob Nolan was building his hydro-lifter Eldorado in the late 1990s he ran into a similar issue that was only cured when he hard-chromed the tappets. My friend Easy is still flogging the hell out of that bike.

[luhbo]

....that was only cured when he hard-chromed the tappets....

 

Weird. Hard-chroming is the last thing I'd try for this purpose. Maybe the bike runs with it, but to me it seems more like a proof for the "Guru Come - Guru Go" thesis.

 

Hubert

[Skeeve]

It's a materials compatibility issue. The cast-iron tappets didn't play well with the steel camshaft. I remember when local guru Bob Nolan was building his hydro-lifter Eldorado in the late 1990s he ran into a similar issue that was only cured when he hard-chromed the tappets. My friend Easy is still flogging the hell out of that bike.

 

 

This sounds like an interesting tale in itself. Care to start a new thread & give us the details at length? "Tales from the Crypt(ic)" or something like that?

[Greg Field]

This sounds like an interesting tale in itself. Care to start a new thread & give us the details at length? "Tales from the Crypt(ic)" or something like that?

 

It's standard American hot-rod engineering. His tappets and cams were wearing, so he took them to a V-8 hot-rod shop. They said, "Hard=chrome the lifter or the cam." He did. It lasted, unlike Guzzi's hydro engines. What works, works. Pontificating about how it shouldn't when it does is of little consequence.

 

Bob Nolan's done more successful fixes and modifications on Guzzis than the combined efforts of the best 10 members here. "Imagineering." That's what he was known for.

[gstallons]

I wonder how long the prototype 8v engines were run? It seems as though these things fail in

[luhbo]

It's probably not a problem of the engine design or even of an improper material pairing. I wonder where such informations come from.

Instead it's again quite certainly just an issue of bad supplier quality as so very often with Guzzi.

 

Hubert

[belfastguzzi]

.... an issue of bad supplier quality as so very often with Guzzi.

 

Hubert

If they have repeated problems with poor supplier quality, why don't they address this – when it happens year after year, affects model after model, affects customer after customer and damages the company's reputation time after time?

 

Why would a company repeatedly allow such poor quality supplies when it knows, from it's own damaging experience, that it is vulnerable?

[Paul Minnaert]

I wonder how long the prototype 8v engines were run? It seems as though these things fail in

 

 

I suppose they were run for a long time, Piaggio is a big company, and after a complete new engine, they have taken enough time to test things. Only I suppose after all the tests, the production was started, they have orderd parts at their suppierers, and guess waht some parts weren't up to spec.

 

They ask prices for parts at 3 supliers and choose the cheapest that can deliver the specs.

[belfastguzzi]

They ask prices for parts at 3 supliers and choose the cheapest that can deliver the specs.

Well, like I say, don't they know what the result of that can be?

And still they risk the reputation of an important new engine?

[luhbo]

No excuse of course. But is this an excuse to bash the designers and engineers down there all day long?

 

Hubert

[mike wilson]

Why would a company repeatedly allow such poor quality supplies when it knows, from it's own damaging experience, that it is vulnerable?

 

My guess would be that there is such staff turnover in the middle management area that the company literally does not know from its own experience, becaue it doesn't have any.

[mike wilson]

No excuse of course. But is this an excuse to bash the designers and engineers down there all day long?

 

Hubert

 

The production and quality control engineers, certainly. They have manifestly failed in their duties. Without their failure to fulfil their responsibilities, the bean counter/supplier mistake/shortcut would have been caught before it became public. This is not a single failure, it is a systemic problem.

[mike wilson]

Well, like I say, don't they know what the result of that can be?

And still they risk the reputation of an important new engine?

 

It's not choosing the cheapest that is the fault. The fault is in not checking your supplies before installing them.

[mike wilson]

I suppose they were run for a long time, Piaggio is a big company, and after a complete new engine, they have taken enough time to test things.

 

Not necessarily. Car companies are reknowned for running up huge test mileages of new models; normally into six figures, often more. However, I remember reading a report of a new tourer motorcycle from one of the big four, some time in the early 1980s. As it happened, the introduction presentation was partly hosted by factory test riders. The journalist (from the late, great Cycle magazine) asked one of the riders how big the testing programme was for the new long-distance tourer. 20,000 miles, he was told. He had just managed to get confirmed that this was the total for the test fleet when the rider was hustled away by a sales manager. My experiences of large mileages on two wheels make me think that the figure was probably right.

[luhbo]

....This is not a single failure, it is a systemic problem.

 

Well said. That's one reason why some say it would be only good for Guzzi, for the brand, if it would leave Mandello as soon and quick as possible. On the other hand, there are big suppliers situated there like Lafranconi which deliver good quality to BMW for instance. So it's not too much to do with the climate down there.

 

Hubert