Weight

[richard100t]

Good Q, Richard.

 

On the V11, the rider's weight, regardless of number, is always going to center aft of the center of weight of the bike, as the laden vs. unladen scale numbers indicated.

 

My observation above was based on this measurement. To take an exaggerated hypothetical as an example -- by extrapolating from the numbers I got, if a rider weighed half of my weight -- 90 lbs. (somewhere, I reckon there is one ), the laden F/R weight bias would be very close to 45/55 %.

 

Not too shabby, eh?

I may have to finish this whole pot of coffee before that completely sinks in! lol

[Guest ratchethack]

Ok rh , can you tell me where you judged the center line to be and from where did u measure , I have access to a set of scales at work and I'd like to check my bike for a comparison, although I won't have to block wheels as the scale is built into the floor.

No need to determine where the center is to get fore-aft weight bias. The only measurements I made were to weigh the bike under each tire independently, as posted. It's pretty obvious when comparing the laden vs. unladen weight bias that the rider puts more of his weight on the rear tire than on the front tire, since rider weight shifts the total weight bias rearward.

 

Hope this helps.

[Guest ratchethack]

I may have to finish this whole pot of coffee before that completely sinks in! lol

Richard, I might have clarified by saying that my prior statement about lighter riders shifting the laden weight forward and heavier riders shifting laden weight rearward was stated relative to my weight. Obviously, a rider of any weight will shift the combined rider and bike weight bias rearward relative to the weight bias of the bike alone. The more the rider weighs, the greater the laden rear bias.

 

Make sense?

 

Will edit prior post for greater clarity.

[Guest ratchethack]

Not to confuse matters, but here's a handy dandy figure that may be helpful to those inclined to ponder such things. . .

 

Again using my own weight, I ran the laden vs. unladen weights and % biases thru the calculator and came up with a "universal" ratio for fore-aft rider weight (alone) bias for riders of any weight. For my Sport (see disclaimer above) it's this:

 

Rider weight bias by wheel

 

F/R, 37/63 %

 

In other words, a rider of any weight and "normal" physical attributes (no elephant butt or other grossly swollen extremities, no massive plate in the head, and not missing a brain, or any other potentially significant body parts ) will contribute to the laden weight bias of a similarly configured V11 Sport by adding 37% of his weight to the front tire and 63% of his weight to the rear tire.

 

Hope this helps.

 

EDIT: Just to throw a pre-emptive fence around any errant tangential challenge, (oh, it's coming, make no mistake ), the MAX LOAD ratings on road tires ARE NOT necessarily an indicator of solo rider laden weight bias on any moto. Consider that road tires (as opposed to race tires) are engineered to meet MAX LOAD ratings appropriate for passenger and cargo.

 

FWIW, Metzeler Z6 MAX LOAD (LOAD RANGE B ) are: F/R, 520/716 lbs.

 

FWIW (Part II), seems the only reasonable conclusion that might be drawn by considering the F/R MAX LOAD rating weight bias above, 42/58 %, is that the Metz engineers figure a fully loaded Sport-Touring bike (passenger and cargo) carries up to 200 lbs. more over the rear tire than it does over the front tire.

 

FWIW (Part III), Interestingly enough, the F/R MAX LOAD rating weight bias of the Metz Z6 (42/58 %), matches up EXACTLY with the laden solo rider (no cargo) weight bias I got on my scale for the V11 Sport. Coincidence, or Voodoo magic -- you decide.

[richard100t]

Not to confuse matters, but here's a handy dandy figure that may be helpful to those inclined to ponder such things. . .

 

Again using my own weight, I ran the laden vs. unladen weights and % biases thru the calculator and came up with a "universal" ratio for fore-aft rider weight bias added to the unladen bike for riders of any weight. For my Sport (see disclaimer above) it's this:

 

Rider weight bias by wheel

F/R, 37/63 %

 

That is, a rider of any weight and "normal" physical proportions (no elephant butt or other grossly swollen extremities, and not missing any significant body parts ) will contribute to the laden weight bias of a similarly configured V11 Sport by adding 37% of his weight to the front tire and 63% of his weight to the rear tire.

 

Hope this helps.

 

EDIT: Just to throw a pre-emptive fence around any errant tangential challenge, (oh, it's coming, make no mistake ), the MAX LOAD ratings on road tires ARE NOT an indicator of solo rider laden bias on any moto. Consider that road tires (as opposed to race tires) are engineered to meet MAX LOAD ratings appropriate for passenger and cargo.

 

FWIW, Metzeler Z6 MAX LOAD (LOAD RANGE B ) are: F/R, 520/716 lbs.

Ok I think from what you are saying that a larger portion of the weight goes to the rear than the front. Therefore a heavier rider will send more weight to the rear than a lighter one which makes sense. 37/63 is a pretty big spread, I had no idea it was that far from even.

[Guest ratchethack]

. . .37/63 is a pretty big spread, I had no idea it was that far from even.

Nor did I, before I calculated this, though I knew it was going to be pretty significant. I get an entirely different feel and response hard over at the margins of the tires with my weight forward up over the front end as far as I can go, especially in the twisties in the local mountains where I like to ride the most. It's been ingrained habit for years, ever since I got the suspension fully dialed-in front & rear, re-sprung at both ends, with the last item being a custom shock. Weight full forward for both high-speed sweepers and tight stuff does absolutely fabulous things for more planted, precise, balanced, and neutral handling.

 

As KB has noted recently, I reckon shortening up the tank at the rear and moving the seat forward would achieve more of the same. Seems it would take a pretty significant effort. I'm not chopping mine up, will leave this to one o' those hereabouts stuck on the perpetual "More is Always Better, What Trade-offs?" treadmill. . .

 

Meanwhile, I'll be out enjoying the Guzzi for wot the Luigi's had in mind in the first place.

 

And IMHO, that ain't half bad -- once set up properly. . .

[The Monkey]

37/63, keep in mind that this is a static measurement. Once dynamic those numbers will change. I bet most the hardware in the previously posted list of Rubenesque machinery has a similiar aft bias. If this wasn't the case your front tyre would be completely overwhelmed during trail braking to apex. Ever noticed how your front skin gets totally shot halfway from crown to shoulder? Healthy gear ridden vigorously puts massive loads on that wee little front tyre.

[Guest ratchethack]

37/63, keep in mind that this is a static measurement. Once dynamic those numbers will change. I bet most the hardware in the previously posted list of Rubenesque machinery has a similiar aft bias. If this wasn't the case your front tyre would be completely overwhelmed during trail braking to apex. Ever noticed how your front skin gets totally shot halfway from crown to shoulder? Healthy gear ridden vigorously puts massive loads on that wee little front tyre.

TM, I believe you misunderstand.

 

37/63 % is the F/R RIDER weight bias alone, by wheel.

 

The "hardware alone" (that is, UNLADEN) weight (again, from previous post) measured:

 

534 lbs. = unladen

 

47/53 = F/R % unladen bias

 

As far as static vs. dynamic, the LADEN weight bias (rider on board) at rest (as weighed) is the same as it is underway at any constant speed. Of course the F/R weight bias of bike and rider changes under acceleration and deceleration. Under ultimate acceleration (wheelie), the F/R weight bias goes to 0/100 %, and under ultimate deceleration (stoppie), the F/R weight bias goes to 100/0 %.

[The Monkey]

No misunderstanding, that's what I implied. I haven't measured those other bikes but you do see a continuity in weight/tyre size and market be it from Japan, Germany or Italy. I am suggesting that due to the weight, it behooves a manufacturer not to produce something unmanageable, which I suspect any of these machines would be with too much on the forward skin. Hardware, rider or both.

[d-rock]

I know Moto Guzzis are heavy. I don't think this is any great disadvantage. How much does the Moto Guzzi engine and transmission unit weigh? I think that may be where most of the weight is. It must weigh over 200 lbs maybe 250? Please post the weight if you know it.

 

What about the wieght of the spine frame. It must not weigh more than about 20 lbs?

 

A Ducati ST2 owner sat on my V11 last week and said it felt lighter than his Duc. I am sure it isn't, but maybe the weight is a bit lower.

 

Nigel

 

My first bike was an St2. The V11 doesn't feel lighter. It feels smaller. It may in fact be smaller. I'm not sure.

[gavo]

Maybe thats the beauty of the guzzi, it may be heavy and look large but when I first sat on mine it felt much smaller

[gavo]

Front-to-Rear Weight Bias of the 2000 Guzzi Sport

 

FWIW, here's wot I came up with, from a post nearly 3 years back. Had to look it up myself because I couldn't remember.

 

Measurements were made one wheel at a time, with wheels blocked up even and level.

 

Here's wot I found:

 

DISCLAIMER: I weigh 180 lbs without riding gear. Measurements were made without riding gear. My Guzzi is a slightly modified 2000 Sport. The most significant mods likely to affect front-rear weight bias are replacement of stock mufflers with FBF carbons, and a list o' such trifling matters as the addition of a Stucchi flyscreen, Throttlemeister 14 oz. bar-ends, a smattering of extra relays and heavy gauge wire, a set o' Fiamm Highway Blaster horns, a Stucchi crossover, Roper plate, etc. The latter items I consider negligible to the exercise. Measurements were made with a half-tank of fuel. Laden readings were taken in riding position, as would be the case when taking suspension sag measurements.

 

534 lbs. = unladen

714 lbs. = laden

 

47/53 = F/R % unladen bias

42/58 = F/R % laden bias

 

This^ was actually not as bad as I had expected.

 

Coupla observations:

 

While both the total weight and the weight bias of the V11 design (either taken alone, IMHO), take the Guzzi Sport OUT of the category of modern, nimble-handling Sport machines of today, (some would say it's pretty far out, regardless) It's not all that far out, IMHO.

 

Raising the bars would shift the laden weight bias rearward - potentially a significant amount.

 

Heavier riders than myself would shift the laden weight bias rearward, and lighter riders than myself would shift the bias forward relative to the numbers I got.

 

Ciao.

 

 

Config. as weighed

 

Ok just weighed the 2001 rosso mandello

 

Front unladen 110kgs rear unladen 131.5 kgs ratio f 45.5% r 54.5%

 

Front laden 141kgs rear laden 196.5kgs ratio f 42% r 58%

this is with approx 8lt of fuel and I sat up slightly to mimic raising the bars 75mm and it only added 4 kilos to the rear

[andrewdonald1]

Did anyone here buy a guzzi for performance (weight or hp)?

 

What's the big deal on weight?

 

It passes anything I want on the street other than the freaks ready to loose their license.

 

It stops great for the street.

 

It sounds awesome anywhere.

 

It handles just fine on the street.

 

It has more character and that sexy sound - more than 95% of the bikes on the street.

 

What more do we need?

 

I don't get it. I thought this crowd was not programmed like the typical magazine infected, your not worth anything unless your bike is the most "fill in the blank here of your choice" folks.

[Baldini]

Ok just weighed the 2001 rosso mandello

 

Front unladen 110kgs rear unladen 131.5 kgs ratio f 45.5% r 54.5%

 

Front laden 141kgs rear laden 196.5kgs ratio f 42% r 58%

this is with approx 8lt of fuel and I sat up slightly to mimic raising the bars 75mm and it only added 4 kilos to the rear

 

I found these numbers - can't remember what fuel load, I did it at garage during MOT insp couple yrs ago.

 

For V11 SCURA with me in gear & normally seated:

 

Front: 147kgs

Rear: 186Kgs

Ratio: 44/56%

 

Scura has clip ons & I tend to sit forward - so I guess figures are pretty much in line w Gavo's.

 

KB