Oil Pan Removal

[RHIP]

I attempted my first oil change today. Got the manhole cover off, found that the filter in the bike had a different number of flutes than my replacement, and that it was not coming out that way. Did get the cover back on, but I now understand why people are concerned about cross-threading; not fun.

 

So, I'm going to drop the pan. Is there any need to pull off the rear oil line, or can I leave it attached and just let the pan swing down to access the filter? If I do have to remove it (the two in front go on top of the plate -shouldn't need to be touched, right?), do I wrench on the smaller coupling - not on the larger nut closest to the engine, right? I have searched for several hours to find anything on the forum on this, without success.

 

Finally, are we still using the hose clamp when attaching the new filter?

 

I love my V 11, but I change the oil and filter on my 32-year old RS in 30 minutes. Why must the spin-on filter be INSIDE the sump? Why, Guido, why?

[The Monkey]

Hi RHIP, open ended wrench on small coupling should do it, if the larger spins secure it with another wrench so it stays put. I use a large adjustable as the purchase on the coupling is broader and I can ensure a tighter fit than an open ended spanner (reduces risk of bruising the coupling). The advantage to taking the line off compared to letting the pan swing is that you can take the pan clear of the machine and clean, inspect the mesh filter for the pick-up (it sometimes need to be tightened depending on whether or not guido did the assembly with love and care back in Mandello. Personally I dont use a hose clamp on the oil filter, some here who have had these bikes longer than I swear by it, but with 30+ years wrenching on various engines 35-1500hp I have never had a filter come loose. There is a universal filter wrench tool that cups the end of the filter and is actuated with a 3/8 ratchet. It is a good idea to inspect the pan and clean it (I do it every 30000km) But with that filter removal tool you can access it through the manhole. All things Italian take patience, I've found the simplest of tasks on these machines are best approached with the right frame of mind, even something as basic as an oil change. Be sure you've got the mesh filter for the oil pickup correctly aligned when reinstalling the pan. There is a lock tab on the bolt holding it in place. Go easy all threads are aluminum based. Get the right filter removal tool pack a spare o-ring for the manhole (you will probably never use it mine is still fine after 65000km). I use the recommended filter from Guzzi, and synthetic oil Motul 15-50 and change the oil at 10000km intervals. I use an 18mm nut as the manhole removal tool it has the correct 27mm size for the recess and there is a closed end spanner in your stock tool kit that fits it. Have fun. Fix it slowly, ride it fast.

[DeBenGuzzi]

HELL, I only replace the actual filter every other oil change and use high end synthetics so I'm not too worried about it, filter is a bisnatch compared to any other bike I've seen or owned, I'm sure there are worse and this thread will follow with hilarious stories and examples but I have no other than my double-ought goose. I'm dropping the pan next time, didn't do it this past time but dealer changed it out time before that and with no dealers within 2 hours or a shop I'd trust to actually do it I'll be dropping it next time I guess.

[ponti_33609]

Hi and Welcome!

 

FWIW I have changed my oil 3-4 times...more to time rather than mileage. I have always dropped the sump. There are only 14 screws and I can change my oil in 30 minutes. I actually think it is easire than messing with the man-hole cover. You can also check it all out while it's down. I do not remove the oil hose on the back of the sump...it is not needed to sucessfully change filter, gasket etc. Also use a clamp because for $1.99, it is cheap insurance. There have been more than one report from guys that work at reputable dealers that have seen them in person.......so why not?

 

Best of luck,

Bob

[Steve G.]

I attempted my first oil change today. Got the manhole cover off, found that the filter in the bike had a different number of flutes than my replacement, and that it was not coming out that way. Did get the cover back on, but I now understand why people are concerned about cross-threading; not fun.

 

So, I'm going to drop the pan. Is there any need to pull off the rear oil line, or can I leave it attached and just let the pan swing down to access the filter? If I do have to remove it (the two in front go on top of the plate -shouldn't need to be touched, right?), do I wrench on the smaller coupling - not on the larger nut closest to the engine, right? I have searched for several hours to find anything on the forum on this, without success.

 

Finally, are we still using the hose clamp when attaching the new filter?

 

I love my V 11, but I change the oil and filter on my 32-year old RS in 30 minutes. Why must the spin-on filter be INSIDE the sump? Why, Guido, why?

 

 

You need an 8 flute filter wrench for the factory UFI filter. I bought mine from I think NAPA, or some place similar, it's made by Vector, part #17030, made in USA.

 

While I don't use a hose clamp, I think there are two ways of thinking here, both routes, unfortunately the pan has to come off.

 

1] Use a hose clamp, therefore the pan comes off.

2] Tighten the filter enough so that it won't rattle loose, therefore the pan comes off because it's now too tight for any filter wrench, so you have to use a pipe wrench to get the dang filter off.

 

Oil of course is a subjective matter, so I'm not going to offer any thoughts on this, except to say that synthetic oil gets just as dirty and full of burned and unburned fuel, so 10,000kms [6K miles] is stretching it I think. Remember, synthetic oils main advantage is it's ability to retain it's original rated viscosity regardless of how hot, or cold the oil is. It DOES NOT stay cleaner, although it may look like it stays cleaner as it does not 'cook' during extreme high temperature like regular oils due to it's temperature resistance.

Oh, and Pete Roper's thoughts on using fermented Yak fat, well, I'll let you decide on the oil.

 

 

Steve

[Guest ratchethack]

I love my V 11, but I change the oil and filter on my 32-year old RS in 30 minutes. Why must the spin-on filter be INSIDE the sump? Why, Guido, why?

RHIP, of the dozen moto's I've owned and done oil changes on, the Guzzi is probably the easiest, quickest, and least messy. I can do an oil and filter change inside of 15 minutes without rushing it, plus the time left to drain. By way of comparison, my XT600E Yamaha requires a series of separate sequential steps for draining, removal of parts for access, filling and bleeding air, a new gasket and o-ring, and the use of sealant in a place not easy to seal, not to mention a pile of rags to control the mess, making the ritual far more tedious, and it usually takes a minimum of a half hour, plus the time left to drain.

 

This is just me, but I wouldn't have the filter on my V11 anywhere else than in the sump. If you're confident in your filter tightening technique (I am, simply by following the filter mfgr. instructions) IMHO there's no need to think twice about any danger of it loosening, but that's just me.

 

You can buy a composite oil filter socket at any Kragen Auto Parts that will fit any filter you want to use on your V11. I think mine cost less than $3 USD.

 

Lacking a filter socket to fit the old filter, you can easily and quickly remove it without dropping the sump by "skewering" the old filter with a needle-nose pliers open wide enough to get some twist leverage on it (tapping it a ways into the filter with a mallet or block of wood), and spin it off with the handles of the pliers.

 

It's a different setup, just takes a little getting used to. Hope this helps.

[fotoguzzi]

Why must the spin-on filter be INSIDE the sump? Why, Guido, why?

Because that is where the dirty oil is!

[pete roper]

It took them about eight years to add an oil filter. After that it took about 25 years of un-neccessary whinging and grizzling by people who carried on like little girls at the beach with sand in their twats to change the sump arrangement so you could access the filter without removing the sump. Still people grizzled because you needed a 'special' filter wrench and needed to remove the 'MAnhole Cover' to get to the filter so after another nine years the re-design the sump again so you don't have to remove the 'Manhole cover' but you still need the 'Special' wrench available at any 'Wottalotacrap Auto' for twenty bucks or less and guess what? People are still Grizzling!

 

HTFU PEOPLE! IT'S NOT THAT HARD!!!!

 

Pete

[RHIP]

It took them about eight years to add an oil filter. After that it took about 25 years of un-neccessary whinging and grizzling by people who carried on like little girls at the beach with sand in their twats to change the sump arrangement so you could access the filter without removing the sump. Still people grizzled because you needed a 'special' filter wrench and needed to remove the 'MAnhole Cover' to get to the filter so after another nine years the re-design the sump again so you don't have to remove the 'Manhole cover' but you still need the 'Special' wrench available at any 'Wottalotacrap Auto' for twenty bucks or less and guess what? People are still Grizzling!

 

HTFU PEOPLE! IT'S NOT THAT HARD!!!!

 

Pete

 

 

But Pete, it's easier in Oz because the manhole cover screws back on counter-clockwise.

 

All have you have put this back into perspective for me, I'm taking deep, relaxed breaths, and will plunge ahead with the joy of pan-dropping. Yes, it could be worse.

 

One thing I do plan to do is have my sump drain bolt drilled to be safety-wired. I've got another bike with a soft pan, insert that bolt until it's just tight, wire it up, and it never leaks or loosens - or strips. Thanks for the info, everyone.

[gstallons]

if a person's not up to the job, they can have someone do it for them.

[Skeeve]

It took them about eight years to add an oil filter. After that it took about 25 years of un-neccessary whinging and grizzling by people who carried on like little girls at the beach with sand in their twats to change the sump arrangement so you could access the filter without removing the sump. Still people grizzled because you needed a 'special' filter wrench and needed to remove the 'MAnhole Cover' to get to the filter so after another nine years the re-design the sump again so you don't have to remove the 'Manhole cover' but you still need the 'Special' wrench available at any 'Wottalotacrap Auto' for twenty bucks or less and guess what? People are still Grizzling!

 

HTFU PEOPLE! IT'S NOT THAT HARD!!!!

 

Pete

 

Pete: what's "HTFU"? I know "stfu," but "htfu" strikes me as a mash up of "hth" & "stfu," and believe you me, I am not "happy to f!ck up" in fact, I've found it quite irritating whenever I've fup ducked.

 

As for the whining, I don't know why Guzzi has found it so difficult to hang a filter off the front of the sump; heck, there's been the deep vee sump aftermarket part showing them the way for dog's years! How hard could it be to knock off that part & just make it standard fitment? No matter, while it's a trifle annoying to have to drop the pan to get at the filter, it's not the same hassle as having to turn the wheel all the way left, drop the bash plate, take a pie tin & wedge it in position, then snake my hand up, around & thru from beneath to reach the oil filter on my Toyota. Then there's the around 20deg of rotational movement that I have clearance for when in position, so it takes about 5 minutes of turning just to get the filter off of my truck. Nor do I have to deal with the fact that with the filter mounted upside down on my truck, the oil drains down the side of the engine & my arm [never change the oil hot in this beast, let me tell you!], which explains the need for the pie tin wedged up over the x-member to keep the oil at least somewhat aimed at the drain pan. Did I mention that you have to clean the mounting surface by feel, as there's no direct sight line at it from any angle to inspect for munge that will cause the new filter to leak? Lucky thing the filter is smaller than the one on the Guzzi, so you can still get it out off w/o being caught in some monkey trap scenario! Who cares that because the dang thing is so small, you'd d@mn well better replace it every oil change!

 

Yes, I *could* get the remote mount filter relocation kit for my truck, it's just easier to complain about it than to pony up the money (& it's much cheaper than the deep vee sump! )

[RHIP]

Pete: what's "HTFU"? I know "stfu," but "htfu" strikes me as a mash up of "hth" & "stfu," and believe you me, I am not "happy to f!ck up" in fact, I've found it quite irritating whenever I've fup ducked.

 

As for the whining, I don't know why Guzzi has found it so difficult to hang a filter off the front of the sump; heck, there's been the deep vee sump aftermarket part showing them the way for dog's years! How hard could it be to knock off that part & just make it standard fitment? No matter, while it's a trifle annoying to have to drop the pan to get at the filter, it's not the same hassle as having to turn the wheel all the way left, drop the bash plate, take a pie tin & wedge it in position, then snake my hand up, around & thru from beneath to reach the oil filter on my Toyota. Then there's the around 20deg of rotational movement that I have clearance for when in position, so it takes about 5 minutes of turning just to get the filter off of my truck. Nor do I have to deal with the fact that with the filter mounted upside down on my truck, the oil drains down the side of the engine & my arm [never change the oil hot in this beast, let me tell you!], which explains the need for the pie tin wedged up over the x-member to keep the oil at least somewhat aimed at the drain pan. Did I mention that you have to clean the mounting surface by feel, as there's no direct sight line at it from any angle to inspect for munge that will cause the new filter to leak? Lucky thing the filter is smaller than the one on the Guzzi, so you can still get it out off w/o being caught in some monkey trap scenario! Who cares that because the dang thing is so small, you'd d@mn well better replace it every oil change!

 

Yes, I *could* get the remote mount filter relocation kit for my truck, it's just easier to complain about it than to pony up the money (& it's much cheaper than the deep vee sump! )

 

 

I should let Pete reply, but "HTFU" is the acronym for "Harden the F**k Up!", a wonderful expression from Down Under. I didn't know what it meant either, and it is well worth it to Google it to get to the YouTube video of Chopper Reid demonstrating it's correct usage. HTFU, indeed.

[Guest ratchethack]

As for the whining, I don't know why Guzzi has found it so difficult to hang a filter off the front of the sump; heck, there's been the deep vee sump aftermarket part showing them the way for dog's years! How hard could it be to knock off that part & just make it standard fitment?

Skeeve, you know that if Guzzi had switched over to a front-mount "outsider", even greater hordes of whiners would complain about it making the Guzzi look like an obscenely swollen randy goat, not to mention endless complaints over the danger of putting the motor at risk of loss of oil due to punctures in the filter from road debris. . .

 

Then there'd be an even more substantial aftermarket cranking out "insider" conversions -- just like yours and mine -- and at a great wallopping price. . .

 

The grass is always greener, you know. . .

[RHIP]

I have HTFU'd, dropped and replaced the pan, installed the filter (and a clamp), and with the right attitude, it really wasn't that big of a deal. The only surprise was when installing the new filter, it only went on about one turn. I knew there was something wrong, tried it several times, when all of a sudden the rubber sealing ring from the old UFI dropped down from the filter cavity! Check your old filter before spinning on that new one!

 

Before I fill it with oil, I'm going to drill the drain plug so I can safety-wire it. I've found with other bikes with soft pans, this allows minimal torque, no leaks, and maximum security the plug stays in and the threads never strip.

[Skeeve]

Ah, "HTFU" is synonymous w/ "Sack up" then. Got it.