Front wheel spacer loose

[stewgnu]

to add: there is a straight spacer on the left though

[80CX100]

3 hours ago, Revilo said:

Hi. Thanks.

The axle bolt is 25mm diameter at the R/H end and 20mm diameter at the left hand side. It threads directly into the left fork leg. The spacer has in internal diameter of 20mm and is about 15mm long, so will fit over the bigger R/H end of the axle, or (as I have it in the photo) over the inner sleeve that fits between the two (new) bearings, and protrudes through the L/H bearing.

It is possible that I've mislaid something...or it was never there, but I'm usually pretty careful about stuff like this.

Very puzzled. Would love to hear from someone with the same fork arrangement.

I've got a 2003 Lemans, my axle and spacers appear identical to yours, but my LH fork isn't threaded, there's a large nut on the LH side.

On my ft wheel assembly, the locating forces and spacers are as described by guzzimoto and weegie, the inner bearing races are an integral part of the whole locating assembly, located by the RH 25 mm wider shoulder of the axle, RH bearing, inner spacer, LH bearing, and the LH 15 mm spacer; but I note in your description, you describe the inner spacer as passing THROUGH the LH bearing not up against the inner races like mine is.

I'm just thinking out loud, but is it possible that in the confusing transition of fork/axle designs/wheel assemblies mid year 2003, you may have ended up with the incorrect bearing inner race design/spec? 

Do you still have the old bearings to compare if they're an exact match to the new ones?

I'm sure it's a simple problem once you figure out what it is.

good luck

[Revilo]

Oh heck. Next thing we know there'll be a pandemic missing spacers!

Stewgnu...maybe. All the diagrams and everything I have seen so far says spacer on the left side.

Ill post a clearer pic of my spacer.

Thanks Chuck. I've looked at parts manuals that I have access to which don't show a second spacer.

I have seen some talk of different sized internal dimensions for the wheel bearings (which seems a strange approach to me, but it would all tighten up properly. That would be a int. diameter of 20mm on the R/H side and 25mm on the L/H side as fitted now. the internal sleeve arrangement making up the difference.

I must admit that I didn't check the new ones against the old (now long gone). Idiot. I was handed the new bearings at my last MOT on the understanding that I would fit them straight away! So the guy there may have just assumed a standard size.

Thanks for all you thoughts

 

[Revilo]

Thanks 80CX100

What you say concurs with my own thinking ie the 25mm shoulder should sit against the outer edge of the RH bearing....if only I'd kept the originals.

Here's a photo of the spacer.

 

 

[Revilo]

I'm now pretty confident its the wrong bearing on the RH side.

Will replace it and update this thread.

[Weegie]

2 hours ago, Chuck said:

I'm betting the right side will be a maybe 1/4" wide washer. If it were me, I'd look up the parts manual. It *might* show what is missing.

That's a dammed good explanation Chuck, I had not thought of that and it would make a lot of sense, although why they did it doesn't.

I checked the 2003 V11 manuals for the Ballabio and the LeMans, no washer shown, but it does show what looks like a stepped spindle and a wheel nut..................So this is something different

[80CX100]

My head hurts when I start thinking about the axles,spacers,bearing races and all the forces involved, quite the Rubicks cube, the ft is child's play compared to the back 

It sounds like your new bearing inner races have different ID's, if they do, just for shits and giggles, try reversing the wheel and install it backwards, maybe you've got the right bearings but installed on the wrong sides. fwiw idk

Before you start ripping and ordering, it would be nice the hear from someone with a bike that matches your design exactly, or have the bearings specs confirmed by a trusted source ie Harpers, MG Cycle, MPH, or maybe Pete will happen to see this; the info on the bearing specs for your design is probably already here on this site.

good luck

[Weegie]

1 hour ago, Revilo said:

I have seen some talk of different sized internal dimensions for the wheel bearings (which seems a strange approach to me, but it would all tighten up properly. That would be a int. diameter of 20mm on the R/H side and 25mm on the L/H side as fitted now. the internal sleeve arrangement making up the difference.

Surely both bearings should be 20mm int diameter on the runner. If the diameter was 25mm the spindle is going to slide into the bearing runner and will get tight only when either the threads on the LHS fork leg bottom out or the spindle passes through the bearing and gets stopped by the spacer between the wheel bearings inside the wheel itself.

If the wheel was reversed then 25mm on the other side wouldn't work either AFAIK. You'd have a 20mm diameter spindle sliding into a bearing race that was 25mm, which would make for interesting handling on the road.

I can't think of why the wheel bearing races would have different sizes.....................mind we are talking Guzzi here

@80CX100 's idea is clever too

[docc]

The earlier V11 front wheel has two sizes of inner bearing races. Maybe that was the source of the mix up.

Certainly, this spacer does not appear to seat on the inner race, but looks to be inside of it:

[Revilo]

Hi. Thanks for all your thoughts. In the process I think I had thunk it through, and it looks like the (odd) different sized bearings is correct.

Just dug a but deeper on Harpers and found this which seems to fit with our combined deductions and what I actually have...no missing spacer pandemic!

Down to the local bearing factors in the morning. Will report back and include some images for others who find themselves on this confusing path.

[Lucky Phil]

1 hour ago, Revilo said:

Hi. Thanks for all your thoughts. In the process I think I had thunk it through, and it looks like the (odd) different sized bearings is correct.

Just dug a but deeper on Harpers and found this which seems to fit with our combined deductions and what I actually have...no missing spacer pandemic!

Down to the local bearing factors in the morning. Will report back and include some images for others who find themselves on this confusing path.

Is this the original front end on this bike? IE the original wheel, forks and axle?

I'm betting it's not. I happen to be looking at this subject as we speak. For starters the V11's have 3 types of front forks and 2 different axles at least . KR,KS and KT models all vary in their fork design and wheel retention and yes there are different bearings on earlier and later bikes and the earlier bikes have a sleeved inner spacer due to the bearing ID variation. Earlier have a 20mm and 25mm id bearing and later look to have 25 on both sides because later KT bikes have a 25mm dia axle not 20mm of earlier bikes. They also went from an axle nut to no axle nut and back to an axle nut again and went 40mm,40mm, 43mm.

Ciao 

 

[Revilo]

Hi. Thanks LuckyPhil. Your knowledge of the model range is a lot better than mine. Ive had the bike since 2018 and have no reason to think that the front end is not original, although I do get the sense that some of these bikes were put together with what was in the store.

The image from Harpers website is for V 11 LE MANS/SPORT NAKED 1100 2001-2002

https://www.harpermoto.com/parts-lookup/2000-2009-moto-guzzis/v-11-le-mans-sport-naked-1100-2001-2002/front-wheel-en-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-11-12-13-14-15-16-17-18-19-20-21-22-23-24-25-26-27-28-29-30-31-32-33-34-35-36-37-38-39-40-41-42-43-44-45-46-47/

Interestingly the diagram doesn't show a nut. So my assembly fits with the Harpers image.

Curiouser and curiouser.

[Lucky Phil]

14 minutes ago, Revilo said:

Hi. Thanks LuckyPhil. Your knowledge of the model range is a lot better than mine. Ive had the bike since 2018 and have no reason to think that the front end is not original, although I do get the sense that some of these bikes were put together with what was in the store.

The image from Harpers website is for V 11 LE MANS/SPORT NAKED 1100 2001-2002

https://www.harpermoto.com/parts-lookup/2000-2009-moto-guzzis/v-11-le-mans-sport-naked-1100-2001-2002/front-wheel-en-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-11-12-13-14-15-16-17-18-19-20-21-22-23-24-25-26-27-28-29-30-31-32-33-34-35-36-37-38-39-40-41-42-43-44-45-46-47/

Interestingly the diagram doesn't show a nut. So my assembly fits with the Harpers image.

Curiouser and curiouser.

My knowledge on this is sketchy hence my recent research on the matter. Notice the 2 different P/N's for the axle. I suspect those are the numbers for the first KR bikes with the axle nut and for your bike with the threaded fork on the LHS. Two different axles. The later KT bikes has a different axle again or 25mm with once again a nut on the end and no threaded fork. It's this 2001-2002 period that the 40mm forks changes and then they went to the 43mm forks once again with the nut retention for the KT variant. I believe a 2003 bike should have the later 43mm forks and a retaining nut style axle and 25mm bearings on each side and a plain inner wheel spacer but the "Model year" confusion around this time which I thought was an American thing with 2002 left over bikes re designated 2003 or something so I don't take "model years" too seriously.

If anyone has a pair of 43mm fork legs and an axle for sale I'd be interested.    

Ciao

 

[docc]

3 hours ago, Lucky Phil said:

I believe a 2003 bike should have the later 43mm forks and a retaining nut style axle and 25mm bearings on each side and a plain inner wheel spacer but the "Model year" confusion around this time which I thought was an American thing with 2002 left over bikes re designated 2003 or something so I don't take "model years" too seriously.

If anyone has a pair of 43mm fork legs and an axle for sale I'd be interested.    

Ciao

 

Ah, yes, this. Does your 2003 Sport have a chin pad tank and white face Veglia gauges, @Revilo ?

[Lucky Phil]

14 minutes ago, docc said:

Ah, yes, this. Does your 2003 Sport have a chin pad tank and white face Veglia gauges, @Revilo ?

I just recorded the sum total of my Fork knowledge to date in my personal "data base", here's a copy. There is of course much more to know and for me to learn. Any additional data appreciated.

KR…1999-2001. 40mm forks with 54mm stanchions and 25X20 axle and retaining nut. Free length 750mm. Silver stanchions and wheel bearings of 20 and 25mm ID with an internal axle spacer with a sleeve section for the 25mm ID bearing. Non Cartridge type damper. Comp and rebound damping on different legs, no preload adjustment.

KS…2001-2002/3. 40mm forks with 54mm stanchions and NO retaining nut and a threaded L/H fork leg. Free length 750mm. Different axle (probably length) of 25X20. Wheel bearing 20 and 25mm ID and a sleeved internal wheel spacer for the larger ID bearing. Black stanchions and lowers. Cartridge type damper. Comp and rebound damping on different legs, no preload adjustment.

KT…2002/3 onwards. 43mm forks with 54mm stanchion WITH retaining nut and no threaded leg. Free length 769mm (clip-ons moved to top of triple clamps) Black stanchions and lowers. Axle 30X25mm and wheel bearings both 25mm ID and internal wheel bearing spacer NOT sleeved. Cartridge type damper. Comp and rebound damping on different legs, no preload adjustment.  

Triple clamp offset changed slightly with the “long frame”.     

Ciao