V11 Suspension.......

[raceboy]

Guzzi forks are 770mm..most other forks..ohlins, aprilia, MV...ect ect 730

 

No problem the bike needs that 40mm anyway.

 

Thanks mille108.

 

This makes finding suitable replacement forks a little difficult. What options available to get around this issue?? I noticed on your project you used forks from a MV. I don't imagine the are the 770mm length.

[mille108]

Thanks mille108.

 

This makes finding suitable replacement forks a little difficult. What options available to get around this issue?? I noticed on your project you used forks from a MV. I don't imagine the are the 770mm length.

 

 

To start with i used Aprilia RSV 2004 showa forks 730mm then Aprilia RSV 2005 Ohlins forks 730mm..now MV forks also 730mm..no problem.

 

I dont even use a steering damper,it doesnt need it.

 

And i ride it hard,kneedowns allover the place..look at my signature pic...on pic says more than a thousand words

 

Its not the guzzi but you know what i mean..

[raceboy]

To start with i used Aprilia RSV 2004 showa forks 730mm then Aprilia RSV 2005 Ohlins forks 730mm..now MV forks also 730mm..no problem.

 

I dont even use a steering damper,it doesnt need it.

 

And i ride it hard,kneedowns allover the place..look at my signature pic...on pic says more than a thousand words

 

Its not the guzzi but you know what i mean..

 

 

Great pic with the Kneedown.

 

Ok, so I understand all of this, for the 730mm forks to work within the the V11 setup, the steering head angle needs to change (1 degree steeper)...... Correct?? Also the yoke offset should be brought down to 35mm from the original 40mm....... Correct??

 

And lastly the Swing arm should lengthened 30mm or 40mm forward and 20mm to the rear...... is that correct?

 

Seems simple enough, good winter project.

 

Cheers

[mille108]

Great pic with the Kneedown.

 

Ok, so I understand all of this, for the 730mm forks to work within the the V11 setup, the steering head angle needs to change (1 degree steeper)...... Correct?? Also the yoke offset should be brought down to 35mm from the original 40mm....... Correct??

 

And lastly the Swing arm should lengthened 30mm or 40mm forward and 20mm to the rear...... is that correct?

 

Seems simple enough, good winter project.

 

Cheers

 

 

I changed my steering angle 2 degrees..cut it off..make a new bigger one(diameter needs to be bigger for modern forks/tripple tree) and weld it on....

 

All modern forks already have 30/35mm offset so no problem there.. i still have the ohlins laying around so let me know if ur interested.

 

 

Swingarm is still the same,i dont feel the need to make it longer..i will make a aluminium one but thats only for the looks department.

 

Long swingarms are usefull on 180+horsepower.... superbikes not on 100 horse guzzis, but thats my personal opinion.

[raceboy]

I changed my steering angle 2 degrees..cut it off..make a new bigger one(diameter needs to be bigger for modern forks/tripple tree) and weld it on....

 

All modern forks already have 30/35mm offset so no problem there.. i still have the ohlins laying around so let me know if ur interested.

 

Swingarm is still the same,i dont feel the need to make it longer..i will make a aluminium one but thats only for the looks department.

 

Long swingarms are usefull on 180+horsepower.... superbikes not on 100 horse guzzis, but thats my personal opinion.

 

 

The bike looks great. I sent you a msg.

[raceboy]

well, I have some experience. But not all mods work seperate. When changing the head angle, you also best have shorther triple clamps. Now you have 40mm, I have 30. 35 would do I think.

My steeringhead was 64 degrees, is now 66. The frontwheel is real close to the alternator.

I extended the v11 swingarm 60 to the front, and the swingarm pivot is moved 70mm forward. So at the back the bike is 10mm shorther. And swingarm is from 400 to 460mm. Since then the rear suspension works as it should.

Wheelbase 1430mm, suspension from ohlins front & rear.

 

I have a 1225cc engine with 115hp at the wheel, but from the mods, I think the frame things make the most difference, and give most fun.

 

 

Paul, I've been thinking about your post and was wondering that the changes you have made to the "front" of the swing arm and the relocated "pivot" now relocates the shock mount point 10mm forward therefore jacking up the rear of the bike (if the shock length is not altered). Am I correct? Did you make new side plates to relocate the pivot point?

 

I don't understand this comment..... "My steering head was 64 degrees in now 66"; Please explain.

 

Raceboy

[mille108]

Paul can explain better than me obviously,but there is alot of information to be found on his website.

 

fastguzzi

[Paul Minnaert]

Paul, I've been thinking about your post and was wondering that the changes you have made to the "front" of the swing arm and the relocated "pivot" now relocates the shock mount point 10mm forward therefore jacking up the rear of the bike (if the shock length is not altered). Am I correct? Did you make new side plates to relocate the pivot point?

 

I don't understand this comment..... "My steering head was 64 degrees in now 66"; Please explain.

 

Raceboy

 

 

head angle minus 2 degrees, was 26 now 24.

 

Shock mount isn't changed. What is changed, is the pivot point, moved 70 mm to the front, and a bit down to be on the center of the front joint. So that point is moved 70mm, but the swingarm is extended 60mm. So that makes the bike 10mm shorther at the back.

 

[raceboy]

head angle minus 2 degrees, was 26 now 24.

 

Shock mount isn't changed. What is changed, is the pivot point, moved 70 mm to the front, and a bit down to be on the center of the front joint. So that point is moved 70mm, but the swingarm is extended 60mm. So that makes the bike 10mm shorther at the back.

 

 

 

Paul, Ok that makes more sense about the Steering head angle.

 

Maybe I didn't explain myself about the shock mount clearly. I think I should have said the dimension between shock mount points (distance between swing arm shock mount point and frame shock mount point when the bike is in a static position).

 

To illustrate further....

 

For arguments sake lets say that a V11 in a static state has a distance of 'X' cm between the shock mount on the swing arm and the shock mount on the frame. If you add 60 mm to the front of the swing arm (Point to point dimension is now X + 60mm), then you move the pivot point 70mm forward (Point to point dimension is now

(X+60 mm - 70 mm) for a net result of X-10 mm dimension between the shock mounting points. In my mind this tells me that if the shock length does not change this will in turn jack the rear of the bike up to make up the 10 mm.

 

I hope I'm making sense.....

 

Cheers,

[Guest ratchethack]

For arguments sake lets say that a V11 in a static state has a distance of 'X' cm between the shock mount on the swing arm and the shock mount on the frame. If you add 60 mm to the front of the swing arm (Point to point dimension is now X + 60mm), then you move the pivot point 70mm forward (Point to point dimension is now

(X+60 mm - 70 mm) for a net result of X-10 mm dimension between the shock mounting points. In my mind this tells me that if the shock length does not change this will in turn jack the rear of the bike up to make up the 10 mm.

 

I hope I'm making sense.....

I'm with you, RB. Having installed a custom over-length shock (+5mm), I got a +10mm ride height change, the travel ratio of the OE swingarm from shock to spindle being very close to 1:2. Seems that Paul would have a +20 mm ride height change by retaining both ends of the shock mounts (plus a few mm ride height for the added length of the swingarm), unless he went to a shorter custom-length shock. By the angle of the swingarm in his avatar, it looks pretty high.

[Paul Minnaert]

In theory you are right, but the pivot moved down too, which gives another variation. I measured the swingarm ratio, with exchanging the shock for an alu piece with a number of holes in it, it has a almost flat 2:1 ratio. Shock lenght wasn't changed then. And the front was 40mm down, with shorther forks, but thats not so much as it seem because the angle there changed too. So nothing is as it was, and the complete package result is a nimble bike.

[gavo]

I do understand you all. Well, actually I don't but I don't care.

There are all kinds of motorcyclists and all kinds of motorcycles. One more interesting than the other.

I love 'm all but I won't chat or start a discussion to the owner of an average, normal, right out of the shop motorcycle.

But when I see a racing Guzzi, my heart starts beating louder, eyes getting wider. And here I'm not talking about a shiny Rizoma mirror or other hanky panky shit.

It's a passion. A warm feeling inside,

when enthousiasts, here I'm not talking about 'motorcycle owners' but 'motorcycle enthousiasts', try to make a Guzzi work better, go faster.

It will never be the fastest and lightest. But you can go a long way and enjoy that bike for years and years, never getting tired of it.

If you ride a bike like that, you understand. If you don't, you will never understand how a Guzzi like that feels.

 

Well, all of that just to show my sympathy for the enthousiasm of the topic starter. Go for it.

Oh, I can give you some numbers of my bike;

1995 Moto Guzzi 2 valve - ±160 kg dryweight (51 front - 49 rear ratio) - ±94 rearwheel HP (1064cc)

Believe it, that rocks!

Would I ride a basic, original Guzzi again? I don't think so!

 

Can we please,please please have some more information on your bike and some close up pic's

[jcbooghs]

Please don't beg

I think all the specs of my bike has already passed by on this forum.

I didn't reply instantly to your post because this is not the topic to do.

If I'm excused, I can tell a little about it, topic related.

 

To start with, it's not a V11, but it's precursor Sport 1100 bought brandnew in 1995. I loved the bike and still do. I always found the riding abilities of the Sport pretty good, solid, reliable. The only handicap was it's engine performance. I had to compeed with guys with much faster bikes and my previous bike, a tuned 850 Le Mans was almost faster! So the engine specs went from 77 to 94 rwHP with thanks to my dealer who always raced Guzzi's. The engine mods stayed in the reliable zone. With +100.000km nowadays I can only confirm.

But the bike was hard to ride, and when pushed hard I felt it had to lose some weight. I couldn't! I'm barely 65-70 kg!

Eliminated all the stuff from the tail to the center of the bike. Mounted lightweight fairings. But in that case I lost some balance in the bike. It didn't feel the same way. It went on and on until I quit riding it on the streets. I had lost that reliable feeling. I almost sold the bike at that moment. As I was doing some trackdays all over Europe now and then, I realized a racing Guzzi would be my goal. Further improvement had to be made and I swapped the heavy wheels for the lightweight OZ Racing, the Ghezzi-Brian, wheels. Hey! The balance returned. So the lesson learned was not to take much weight from the bike if you don't deal with the unsprung weight. That was the biggest improvement. Now I started chopping the bike. Everything that wasn't necessary to ride had to move. Other heavy stuff was replaced with lighter alu or carbonfibre. I gained more than 40kg! But the bike was still long and hard to push around a narrow corner. Thanks to Jihem from the forum I was offered an Ohlins front. What a relief. Those narrow corners were suddenly a piece of cake. In addition I changed the steering head from 26° to 24°, 30mm offset instead of 45 with thanks to Paul M. for the information and parts (WP Roma yokes). Nowadays I'm dealing with a bad rearshock. That is still the original WP 280mm example. Too short for the changed geometry translated in understeering. I have already bought a 'wrong' Ohlins here on the forum and I'm still waiting on the Ohlins dealer to get this done.

I guess the used rearshock is also the cause of the different wheelbases on the V11. They use 270mm (SACHS), 280mm (WP) or a 286mm (OHLINS). I guess a longer shock, a higher rearend, a shorter wheelbase.

Also when I swapped from the 160/60-18 tire to the 180/55-17 I lost a full cm ridehight. To compensate this I dropped the forks but it made the bike way too low.

It's a never ending story, you know. If I only had time and money...

[Guest ratchethack]

. . .It's a never ending story, you know. If I only had time and money...

Good story, JCB. I do b'lieve I understand. . .

But to respond to your Q's on "what should Guzzi have done?" and "What can be done?", I reckon opinions vary, are limitless, and how high is the sky? A better set of Q's to start with might be, "How big is your bank account?" and "How much time and effort are you envisioning here?" I reckon it could suck up more than all you've got in all categories for the rest of your life.

[raceboy]

As I posted elsewhere (24/7 forum) I desperately need a new shock.... the stock shock is the Sachs. My thought is the replacement shock should be to the Ohlins dimensions with longer eye-to-eye length & longer stroke. The end result should raise the rear end and hopefully sharpen the steering some.

 

As I understand it, the long framed bikes have no other differences between Sachs and Ohlins equipped bikes.

 

Raceboy