V11 sport surging on neutral throttle?

[Guest ratchethack]

..what tires have you found that the bike likes best?...mine came with Metzlers, and it's time to change....thinking about the Michelin Pilot Road 2's, or Avon Storm's

PM, I've whinged on like a mad thing for years about my favorite tires. Having weathered 4 decades of remarkable evolutionary moto tire development, in my view, you and I now live and ride in a greatly under-appreciated Golden Age of Moto Tires, where the leading mfgr's offerings at the top of any credible competitive evaluation shootout are all SO FRICKIN' GOOD that it's really very very hard to make a choice that could be considered "a mistake" these days. I find that today's steel radials for sport touring are literally quantum leaps beyond the best of any previous generation bias ply hoops, the Sport/Touring tires of today all besting the top of the list of Sport tires of just a few years back in every objective measurement category as tested on road or track, whilst easily doubling their mileage.

 

Now some of our resident Boy Racers would NEVER be seen on anything other than Sport tires when they aren't riding on DOT racing tires. To each his own. But (like wot I suspect is the great majority of Forum members), since I NEVER ride on the track, my tire choices go in the direction of what works best ON THE ROAD -- in my case, for back country and mountain riding, where the performance of Sport Touring tires makes them without question the superior tool in every category that performance can be evaluated. Don't get me started. . .

 

I opened a thread last month with a review (tested literally in the same terrain I ride) of the latest revision of my abiding first tire choice for the road for the Short Frame Guzzi Sport by Adam Waheed at MotorcycleUSA Magazine here:

 

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?...mp;#entry159373

 

-- as tested on a Griso.

 

CAUTION: PM, several on this Forum have posted their only knock on these tires, as you will find with a search. The problem seems to be the lack of a center groove on the Z6 rear, and the associated difficulty of determining remaining tread approaching end of tire life. (I've had no such problem with 4 ea. Z6 rear tires, but that's just me, as posted numerous times previously.) At least one of the aforementioned Z6 knockers has expressed a preference for another tire -- that ALSO lacks a center groove. I note that lack of a center groove on Sport Touring tires is now a common tread design with many mfgr's. If you can figure out the logic behind the idea that this amounts to a deal killer for one tire but not the next, pls. do advise.

[muddy1100]

Gday pieman and welcome,

 

For my worth: I have been running Avon Storm's on my Sport 1100 and the RM for some years now and find

 

Them to be long wearing and very predictable when "giving her the berries". Australia would have some of the shittiest roads out there

 

and we soon find out what works and what tries hard.

 

They are an improvement over the previous Azarros which were a capable tyre as well.

 

From 3 degrees to 50 degrees Celcius they have never let me down (touch wood...)and have proven to be very stable

 

when the weather turns nasty (hence the name I guess)

 

Cheers

 

mud

[pieman]

Gday pieman and welcome,

 

For my worth: I have been running Avon Storm's on my Sport 1100 and the RM for some years now and find

 

Them to be long wearing and very predictable when "giving her the berries". Australia would have some of the shittiest roads out there

 

and we soon find out what works and what tries hard.

 

They are an improvement over the previous Azarros which were a capable tyre as well.

 

From 3 degrees to 50 degrees Celcius they have never let me down (touch wood...)and have proven to be very stable

 

when the weather turns nasty (hence the name I guess)

 

Cheers

 

mud

thanks, and I have tried them out as well on another bike, so may go back...found them to be long wearing and grippy in the heat, and best that a tire can be in the wet/cold...

[pieman]

PM, I've whinged on like a mad thing for years about my favorite tires. Having weathered 4 decades of remarkable evolutionary moto tire development, in my view, you and I now live and ride in a greatly under-appreciated Golden Age of Moto Tires, where the leading mfgr's offerings at the top of any credible competitive evaluation shootout are all SO FRICKIN' GOOD that it's really very very hard to make anything that could be considered "a mistake" these days. I find that today's steel radials for sport touring are literally quantum leaps beyond the best of any previous generation bias ply hoops.

 

Now some of our resident Boy Racers wouldn't ever be seen on anything other than Sport tires when they aren't riding on DOT racing tires. To each his own. But (like wot I suspect is the great vast majority of Forum members), since I NEVER ride on the track, my tire choices go in the direction of what works best ON THE ROAD -- in my case, for back country and mountain riding, where the performance of Sport Touring tires makes them without question the superior tool in every category that performance can be evaluated. Don't get me started. . .

 

I opened a thread last month with a review (tested literally in the same terrain I ride) of the latest revision of my abiding first tire choice for the road for the Short Frame Guzzi Sport by Adam Waheed at MotorcycleUSA Magazine here:

 

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?...mp;#entry159373

 

-- as tested on a Griso.

 

CAUTION: PM, several on this Forum have posted their only knock on these tires, as you will find with a search. The problem seems to be the lack of a center groove on the Z6 rear, and the associated difficulty of determining remaining tread approaching end of tire life. (I've had no such problem with 4 ea. Z6 rear tires, but that's just me, as posted numerous times previously.) At least one of the aforementioned Z6 knockers has expressed a preference for another tire -- that ALSO lacks a center groove. I note that lack of a center groove on Sport Touring tires is now a common tread design with many mfgr's. If you can figure out the logic behind the idea that this amounts to a deal killer for one tire but not the next, pls. do advise.

Wow...seems like the Metzler is favoured, but I am an old school/center groove kind of guy.....regardless, I agree with you that the tires we have to choose from these days are phenomenal and at certain moments we all "feel like Rossi" when the conditions are perfect!!...

[Guest ratchethack]

. . .I am an old school/center groove kind of guy.....

Sorry to say the old school is long gone on this one, my friend. If you can find a currently manufactured, leading performance Sport Touring REAR tire that has a straight center groove, please advise. Today, as mentioned previously, many, if not most have no tread a-tall in the center, and those that do lack a traditional straight groove. Not even easy to find a straight center groove on your "iron butt" Marathon Mile Touring rear hoops these days, with the exception of the Conti Ultra, maybe a few others, and o' course the "classic" cruiser tires and sidecar hoops.

[Skeeve]

Sorry to say the old school is long gone on this one, my friend. If you can find a currently manufactured, leading performance Sport Touring REAR tire that has a straight center groove, please advise. Today, as mentioned previously, many, if not most have no tread a-tall in the center, and those that do lack a traditional straight groove. Not even easy to find a straight center groove on your "iron butt" Marathon Mile Touring rear hoops these days, with the exception of the Conti Ultra, maybe a few others, and o' course the "classic" cruiser tires and sidecar hoops.

 

#1: Straight center grooves are the devil's own handiwork if you ride on CA highways w/ the "rain grooves" cut into them by diamond saw [why they don't just press'em in while the concrete is wet I'll never know... ]

 

#2: There is at least one sport-touring tire w/ voids that cross the centerline of the tire, 'cause it's on the back of my Suzuki as I write! Shinko tires are what used to be Yokohamas before they (Y'k'a) got out of the motorcycle tire business back in '05? or so. Accordingly, their rubber formulas aren't up to present Michelin, M&P, or Dunlop standards, but they're at least a level above the other "off shore" brands. So far, I'm happy w/ the Shinko 009? (maybe it was the 005 model) on the rear of my SV. I would think that one of the majors still makes a tread design that will give you access to center of tread depth estimation, but these things all go in cycles, so at most you'll have to wait a year or two before someone releases a "new tire model" that has a tread design you like.

 

I always liked the Conti Force tire & tread design, even tho' it's roughly equivalent to the MEZ4 in longevity & grip [better in the wet than the Z4's uninspiring performance there tho', but still no patch on the newer Z6 tire...]

 

#3: There is no three.

 

#4: The nice thing about living in So. Cal. is that you really don't need to worry too much about wet grip, unless you go riding Palomar or ACH in the spring time when the snow melt is across the road... unlike our poor brethren in Denmark this summer! [from another thread ]

 

Ride on!

[Guest ratchethack]

. . .these things all go in cycles, so at most you'll have to wait a year or two before someone releases a "new tire model" that has a tread design you like.

Say Skeeve

 

Do you believe tire mfgr's hire "arteests" to come up with trendy new tread designs? This would imply that tread design is arbitrary. Just asking, 'cause that's the impression I get from your statement^.

 

I rather think not, but that's just me. Though many's the rider whose first priority is dressing up for posing and parking lot parading, and no doubt selects his tires based on how well he thinks the tread design "flows" with the artsy graphics on his boots, helmet, or jacket. . . Seems to me tread designs are very carefully engineered to enhance the PERFORMANCE of the tire, regardless of how it looks. Tread patterns evolve as the technology of the tire itself -- compounds, shape, manufacturing techniques, etc. all evolve INTERDEPENDENTLY to give the rider ever more "bang for the buck" where the rubber meets the road, so to speak.

 

Else, I reckon we'd have such joyous wonders as tire mfgr's competing with each other by offering tread designs with the latest "urban" graffiti du jour for a tread pattern, in street gang colors. And wot a booming success in tire sales THAT would be, doubtless. . . O' course, the expected trade-off would be frequent parting with the pavement at times and places not of the rider's choosing -- but then I reckon this wouldn't be a concern, or even as much as a a thought for a great many. And waddayagonna do with that mentality??

 

But again, that's just me. . .

[Dan M]

....I would think that one of the majors still makes a tread design that will give you access to center of tread depth estimation.....

 

 

Follow Dave's approach and get your drill out

 

The center grooves are useless on the rear as the front clears the water when straight up. I've always changed my tires well before the cords show. Other indicators like mileage & profile let me know when to get a new set. And yes, the front goes at the same time. There is a little too much at stake to screw around with marginal tires IMHO.

 

If you need it Conti's have a groove that cuts across the center and Dunlop's are closer than Metz or Pirellis.

[Greg Field]

You don't need a center groove. Just get a sensibly designed tire with siping that extends in from the sides to or near the centerline. At least a half dozen such tires exist in V11 sizes. Or, go with the Z6 and always have to wonder if you'll see the dreaded "white stripe of death" before you get back from your 1400-mile weekend ride, if you do such things. I do. Z6s're for local riders only, IMO. I work at a shop and can't tell you how many times I've heard, "I thought it'd get me home from the trip just fine but started showing cords halfway through, so I had to change it" If you're a local rider, they work well, though they are more expensive than other tires with identical performance and life.

[mike wilson]

Say Skeeve

 

Do you believe tire mfgr's hire "arteests" to come up with trendy new tread designs? This would imply that tread design is arbitrary. Just asking, 'cause that's the impression I get from your statement^.

 

I rather think not, but that's just me.

 

short memory syndrome.

http://v3.espacenet.com/publicationDetails...=en_ep&FT=E

 

8-)

[Guest ratchethack]

short memory syndrome.

http://v3.espacenet.com/publicationDetails...=en_ep&FT=E

 

8-)

Good one, Mike.

 

How many miles d'you reckon they generally got on tires in 1914?

 

Since there weren't any paved roads to speak of, I reckon engineers weren't all that concerned with performance at the limits of lateral traction, nor exploring limits of handling and road manners, lean angles, and suchlike. . .

 

And how many miles d'you expect they got on those spiffy wood spoke wheels?

 

Enquiring minds. . .(well, you know). . .

[Skeeve]

Do you believe tire mfgr's hire "arteests" to come up with trendy new tread designs? This would imply that tread design is arbitrary. Just asking, 'cause that's the impression I get from your statement^.

 

There's definitely a little of both [arbitrary design & actual R&D] involved. Me, I prefer designs that cross the symmetrical center of the casing occasionally, not because of tread depth concerns (altho' that is a bonus), but because in seriously wet conditions[1], you'll hydroplane on a design w/ no voids [note: siping isn't the same as voids. For one thing, siping wouldn't give you much of an idea of tread depth, unless you had a well-lubed feeler gage to shove into a sipe... ]

 

And hydroplaning on a single-track vehicle rhymes w/ "fall down," which I try to avoid!

 

Anyway, my feelings on the topic are that tread designs lean more toward "design as art" than "design as science" but that's just my take on it.

 

Ride on!

 

 

[1] I don't ride in the rain if I can avoid it, but I somehow manage to get caught in a downpour at least once a year. Sux, don't it?

[Skeeve]

Good one, Mike.

 

How many miles d'you reckon they generally got on tires in 1914?

 

Since there weren't any paved roads to speak of, I reckon engineers weren't all that concerned with performance at the limits of lateral traction, nor exploring limits of handling and road manners, lean angles, and suchlike. . .

 

And how many miles d'you expect they got on those spiffy wood spoke wheels?

 

Enquiring minds. . .(well, you know). . .

 

Well, considering that the patent is on a car tire (or "tyre" if you prefer! ), I'd like to do a Rev. Jackson & say "The point is moot!"

 

As for mileage: they got about the same mileage out of those car tires back then as we get out of our sport bike tires now [but we're far more abusive to our tires today.]

 

Wood spoke wheels worked very well in their day. Their expected longevity was more affected by flirting w/ some girl who's dad, brother or erstwhile bf owned an axe or not than any normal stresses applied in daily driving...

 

Ride on!

[Guest ratchethack]

Well, considering that the patent is on a car tire (or "tyre" if you prefer! ), I'd like to do a Rev. Jackson & say "The point is moot!"

Why, I'll see your Jesse Jackson and raise you a Johnny Cochran by saying, "If the tire doesn't fit, you must acquit!"

 

Now I wasn't there, mind you , but seems to me that by 1914, regardless of application on cars, moto's, bicycles, or anything that would take a pneumatic hoop hadn't yet differentiated all that much, with the exception of the most basic size and load ratings. Most commercial trucks of the day didn't even use pneumatic tires (they were still solid), since no pneumatic tire could withstand much of any real load by today's standards. . .

As for mileage: they got about the same mileage out of those car tires back then as we get out of our sport bike tires now

Hmmmmm. I'm thinkin' they rarely went that far in that era, but don't even know anyone to consult on this one. . .

 

D'you figure we've swerved this thread far enough off topic yet, or shall we continue down Ye Olden Days of Tires Memory Lane??

[Skeeve]

D'you figure we've swerved this thread far enough off topic yet, or shall we continue down Ye Olden Days of Tires Memory Lane??

 

There's a topic?!?