V11 sport surging on neutral throttle?

[pieman]

I have a silver 2000 V11 Sport with Magni fairing kit, Staintunes, Stucchi, and fresh tune up..it idles great, accelerates great, but seems to surge when just cruising on neutral/slightly negative throttle. It was originally a California bike and wondering if the mix is a bit lean...anyone else have a similiar problem/fix?...in the meantime I will busy switching idle/seat springs!!

[Tom M]

Welcome Pieman. It sounds like you have a very nice bike there. Here's my take on your surging...

 

Like most bikes the V11's are mapped lean from the factory to meet emissions regulations. When you add freer flowing exhaust components the A/F mixture gets even leaner. I believe you have 3 choices;

 

1. Live with the lean symptoms.

 

2. Put some or all of the stock exhaust back on.

 

3. Add more fuel via a Powercommander, MyECU, or other mixture altering device.

 

Good luck with whatever you decide to do

[Richard Z]

Welcome Pieman. It sounds like you have a very nice bike there. Here's my take on your surging...

 

Like most bikes the V11's are mapped lean from the factory to meet emissions regulations. When you add freer flowing exhaust components the A/F mixture gets even leaner. I believe you have 3 choices;

 

1. Live with the lean symptoms.

 

2. Put some or all of the stock exhaust back on.

 

3. Add more fuel via a Powercommander, MyECU, or other mixture altering device.

 

Good luck with whatever you decide to do

 

Hammer meet nail. Nail meet hammer. Got to AGREE with TOM... I put M4's on and thad them about 3 weeks before the PC..... Did the same thing... Now I'm in good shape, thing runs great.

[DeBenGuzzi]

Hammer meet nail. Nail meet hammer. Got to AGREE with TOM... I put M4's on and thad them about 3 weeks before the PC..... Did the same thing... Now I'm in good shape, thing runs great.

Ditto, it ran TERRIBLE after I put on aftermarket pipes and xover AND pods, in fact wouldn't hold an idle at all, remap with PCIII and runs like a watch, sucks more gas but sounds good doing it

[pieman]

I have a silver 2000 V11 Sport with Magni fairing kit, Staintunes, Stucchi, and fresh tune up..it idles great, accelerates great, but seems to surge when just cruising on neutral/slightly negative throttle. It was originally a California bike and wondering if the mix is a bit lean...anyone else have a similiar problem/fix?...in the meantime I will busy switching idle/seat springs!!

..thanks for your info and advice guys,...I may try the dealer route to re-map the ECU first....where is the best/cheapest place to buy a PCIII online for this bike?..

[Guest ratchethack]

....where is the best/cheapest place to buy a PCIII online for this bike?..

Without much question, and with no reservations wotsoever, by long personal experience, for best price, service, support, and access to friendly expertise on V11 applications of the PCIII, may I most enthusiastically recommend Todd Eagan at GuzziTech:

 

http://www.guzzitech.com/PCIII.html

 

He will ship you a plug 'n play PCIII USB loaded with a "library map" to match your engine config. FWIW, my Guzzi is the same year and model as yours, with nearly identical exhaust config., and OE airbox intact. Mine's been performing faultlessly for 6 years on the first (and only) "library map" I got from Todd, and it works so well, I haven't been interested in trying an alternative.

 

EDIT: This might be a good time to consider flipping the ECU over and re-mounting it (as I did), so that the connector points down, rather than up. This protects it from being hammered by the seat pan on every hard bump, which has been known to flex, weaken, and break a trace on the PCB, with disastrous results, as Tom M discovered a few weeks back. Just a precaution with no downside risk.

[pieman]

Without much question, and with no reservations wotsoever, by long personal experience, for best price, service, support, and access to friendly expertise on V11 applications of the PCIII, may I most enthusiastically recommend Todd Eagan at GuzziTech:

 

http://www.guzzitech.com/PCIII.html

 

He will ship you a plug 'n play PCIII USB loaded with a "library map" to match your engine config. FWIW, my Guzzi is the same year and model as yours, with nearly identical exhaust config., and OE airbox intact. Mine's been performing faultlessly for 6 years on the first (and only) "library map" I got from Todd, and it works so well, I haven't been interested in trying an alternative.

 

EDIT: This might be a good time to consider flipping the ECU over and re-mounting it (as I did), so that the connector points down, rather than up. This protects it from being hammered by the seat pan on every hard bump, which has been known to flex, weaken, and break a trace on the PCB, with disastrous results, as Tom M discovered a few weeks back. Just a precaution with no downside risk.

 

....thanks for the referral to Todd, and I will definitely be ordering one when I get that "you only live once" attitude again!!...and in the meantime, I'll see about the ECU mount.

..I do have a K&N as well, but that will be sorted by the PC I assume.......

have you had to replace your speedo cable?..I have 26,000 mi. and it is wildly optimistic, sometimes double, ....I gather the new part # for it is 01760481...

[Guest ratchethack]

..I do have a K&N as well, but that will be sorted by the PC I assume.......

Yes, this will be sorted by the map.

. . .have you had to replace your speedo cable?..I have 26,000 mi. and it is wildly optimistic, sometimes double, ....I gather the new part # for it is 01760481...

I replaced my speedo cable when the worm gear cable drive at the gearbox popped its retaining disk out on the road, and the cable followed it somewhere in the local mountains. If you're getting wild high, non-rythmic readings, this isn't the cable, it's probably the Veglia speedo head itself. If you can determine that the instrument is bad, and you can find a good used Veglia, I'd recommend this over a repair. If not, PA Speedo is one of the very best (if not the best) in North America on Veglia instruments.

 

http://www.paspeedo.com

 

Helmut and the boys will give you the straight info and Top Drawer service (as long as you're not in a terrific hurry, that is). . . It won't be cheap. But more'n likely well worth wotever they charge.

 

If I've misunderstood your characterization of "wildly optimistic", and the needle is actually rythmically wavering or jumping around a point at steady speed, it's more likely a dry cable calling for lube. If so, first, consider yourself fortunate. In this case, you can either lube it (costs nothing, no downside) and see if this solves the problem. Then, if this doesn't help and it's too late to save it and you still have the symptoms, (in case it hasn't let go altogether at this point, but you know it's wonky because it still feels sticky by rotating it by hand) you can either get a OE replacement cable from your Guzzi dealer/parts source, have one made up (using the original shroud) with ends to match the original for a reasonable price at your local speedo shop, or buy a universal speedo cable replacement kit and cut & crimp your own ends on it for an even more reasonable price.

 

Contrary to the common, ignorant false assumptions of those who have previously posted bad information on this Forum, these cable shrouds ARE NOT teflon or other polycarbonate lined. They run steel cable on steel cable shroud, and without proper lubrication they WILL corrode, wear, fatigue, and eventually fail -- it's only a question of ambient climate and time. I have the remains of a riding Pal's '04 LM speedo cable in my spares inventory, which failed somewhere around 20K miles, IIRC, having never been lubed. The cable itself came out in 2 pieces, substantially corroded, heavily worn, and dry as a bone. I lube my speedo cable from the instrument end, propped up with a funnel securely taped to the cable housing with a small slug of gearbox lube in it, and allow it to work its way down the cable shroud overnight (warm weather helps a lot) before buttoning it back up. Excess lube finds its way into the gearbox. Works like a Champ.

 

Contrary to more common, yet ignorant false assumptions of those who have previously posted bad information on this Forum (Part II), cable lube WILL NOT migrate UP into the instrument head and foul it! This is apparently an old wives' tale left over from the days of Smiths speedo's in British cars of half a century ago (it was a valid concern on my '68 MGB!) The Guzzi speedo cable, on the contrary, is more wisely wound in a direction that works cable lube DOWN the cable with rotation. Yes, I verified this myself by running the motor in gear on the stand, whilst noting the rotation of the cable end.

 

Hope this helps. Good luck.

[pieman]

Yes, this will be sorted by the map.

 

I replaced my speedo cable when the worm gear cable drive at the gearbox popped its retaining disk out on the road, and the cable followed it somewhere in the local mountains. If you're getting wild high, non-rythmic readings, this isn't the cable, it's probably the Veglia speedo head itself. If you can determine that the instrument is bad, and you can find a good used Veglia, I'd recommend this over a repair. If not, PA Speedo is one of the very best (if not the best) in North America on Veglia instruments.

 

http://www.paspeedo.com

 

Helmut and the boys will give you the straight info and Top Drawer service (as long as you're not in a terrific hurry, that is). . . It won't be cheap. But more'n likely well worth wotever they charge.

 

If I've misunderstood your characterization of "wildly optimistic", and the needle is actually rythmically wavering or jumping around a point at steady speed, it's more likely a dry cable calling for lube. If so, first, consider yourself fortunate. In this case, you can either lube it (costs nothing, no downside) and see if this solves the problem. Then, if this doesn't help and it's too late to save it and you still have the symptoms, (in case it hasn't let go altogether at this point, but you know it's wonky because it still feels sticky by rotating it by hand) you can either get a OE replacement cable from your Guzzi dealer/parts source, have one made up (using the original shroud) with ends to match the original for a reasonable price at your local speedo shop, or buy a universal speedo cable replacement kit and cut & crimp your own ends on it for an even more reasonable price.

 

Contrary to the common, ignorant false assumptions of those who have previously posted bad information on this Forum, these cable shrouds ARE NOT teflon or other polycarbonate lined. They run steel cable on steel cable shroud, and without proper lubrication they WILL corrode, wear, fatigue, and eventually fail -- it's only a question of ambient climate and time. I have the remains of a riding Pal's '04 LM speedo cable in my spares inventory, which failed somewhere around 20K miles, IIRC, having never been lubed. I lube my speedo cable from the instrument end, propped up with a funnel securely taped to the cable housing with a small slug of gearbox lube in it, and allow it to work its way down the cable shroud overnight (warm weather helps a lot) before buttoning it back up. Excess lube finds its way into the gearbox. Works like a Champ.

 

Contrary to more common, yet ignorant false assumptions of those who have previously posted bad information on this Forum (Part II), cable lube WILL NOT migrate UP into the instrument head and foul it! This is apparently an old wives' tale left over from the days of Smiths speedo's in British cars of half a century ago (it was a valid concern on my '68 MGB!) The Guzzi speedo cable, on the contrary, is more wisely wound in a direction that works cable lube DOWN the cable with rotation. Yes, I verified this myself by running the motor in gear on the stand, whilst noting the rotation of the cable end.

 

Hope this helps. Good luck.

wow, yes, that does help, and I have used PA Speedo before with my '84 Lemans III, and a friend has also had his BMW R100RS speedo done there..good to know that good shops are still around......guess I have a couple of small projects to keep me busy and thanks again for the info....judging by your pic, you must be quite the aviator, or did you really go 100 mph on your Triton!??

[Guest ratchethack]

....judging by your pic, you must be quite the aviator, or did you really go 100 mph on your Triton!??

Never had a Triton, though I've owned both Norton and BSA twins, and no NorSA or BSorton.

 

 

<big snip>

Braking a forum rules:

- We require all posts to be positive, constructive, and on topic. We may delete individual posts that could ruin a good topic thread.

 

Welcome to the V11 nuthouse, Pieman. It's a place where at any moment, a rip-roarin' Clusterfarge has been known to break out at the slightest provocation a-tall -- or none wotsoever.

....wow, yes, that does help. . .

Always more'n pleased to do my part.

 

Best of luck, and post back with your progress.

 

EDIT: Just curious. Any plans to run the Okanogan with the Guzzi this summer?

Edited June 29, 2009 by Admin Jaap

[pieman]

Never had a Triton, though I've owned both Norton and BSA twins, and no NorSA or BSorton.

 

 

Braking a forum rules:

- We require all posts to be positive, constructive, and on topic. We may delete individual posts that could ruin a good topic thread.

 

Welcome to the V11 nuthouse, Pieman. It's a place where at any moment, a rip-roarin' Clusterfarge has been known to break out at the slightest provocation a-tall -- or none wotsoever.

 

Always more'n pleased to do my part.

 

Best of luck, and post back with your progress.

 

EDIT: Just curious. Any plans to run the Okanogan with the Guzzi this summer?

.....no problem flipping the ECU, and the speedo may be a bigger problem..when I took the cable out, the needle (that was sitting at 50mph), only moved slowly down to 20mph...I haven't had a chance to take it out for a ride yet , but will let re-post later.......another question...what is a roper plate and will it make the bike go faster, and I have read another thread regarding the moving of the gas pump/filter ...is that really necessary as well?....

..ah yes, the Okanagan in summertime...don't think I will take the Guzzi up there this year, as the major holiday is a Lake Tahoe/Sierra mountain ride in Sept on my other marque..

but definitley will be ringing it's little neck here on the island consistently......when did you tour up here last?...

[slowkitty]

Any idea what a stucchi crossover will bring to a stock Scura? Just that. I'm a simple fello.

 

Cheers

[Guest ratchethack]

another question...what is a roper plate and will it make the bike go faster,

It's a baffle plate that goes between the block and sump spacer that prevents exposure of the oil pickup and resulting oil pressure loss under hard launches. Many many posts on this. No, it will not make the bike go (much) faster in any material sense, though there are those (myself included) who have noticed a quicker spin-up over 5K RPM after installation.

I have read another thread regarding the moving of the gas pump/filter ...is that really necessary as well?....

Many have relocated the fuel pump and filter and wrapped everything under the tank with reflective insulation in an attempt to ward off the dreaded hot weather heat-soak vapor lock. It is certainly NOT necessary to do any part of this, and (despite the number of believers who will swear on a stack of Guzziologies that it works), IMHO results have been spotty at best. I've left mine alone, never could quite understand wot all the hubub and re-engineering gyrations have been all about, when waiting for the motor to cool solves the problem whenever it (rarely) happens. Yes, in hot weather, with no breeze to cool the stationary motor, a 2000 Sport will tend to heat-soak and vapor lock after a ~20 min. stop after fully warm and not re-start until it cools. For Yours Truly, this has amounted to once maybe every few years or so, and the timing has to be exactly right, or it will light off fine with just a little stumble or 2 whilst getting underway. No big deal, but best beware.

..ah yes, the Okanagan in summertime...don't think I will take the Guzzi up there this year, as the major holiday is a Lake Tahoe/Sierra mountain ride in Sept on my other marque........when did you tour up here last?...

I ran the Okanagan with my son from Grand Coulee Dam up to Penticton and Kelowna and back about 10 years ago, but that was in a rental car after flying up to Spokane. Unforgettable. Have been promising myself to do it by moto ever since.

 

I lived in Lake Tahoe for nearly 6 years, but that was decades ago. Had both road and dirt bikes the whole time. Ah, the memories. . . If moto heaven exists, I reckon it's in Tahoe. Have been back many times, and fortunately, it hasn't changed.

[mike wilson]

Contrary to more common, yet ignorant false assumptions of those who have previously posted bad information on this Forum (Part II), cable lube WILL NOT migrate UP into the instrument head and foul it! This is apparently an old wives' tale left over from the days of Smiths speedo's in British cars of half a century ago (it was a valid concern on my '68 MGB!) The Guzzi speedo cable, on the contrary, is more wisely wound in a direction that works cable lube DOWN the cable with rotation. Yes, I verified this myself by running the motor in gear on the stand, whilst noting the rotation of the cable end.

 

Worth noting, however, that _if you make up your own new cable_ this is a matter that should be taken into consideration.

[pieman]

It's a baffle plate that goes between the block and sump spacer that prevents exposure of the oil pickup and resulting oil pressure loss under hard launches. Many many posts on this. No, it will not make the bike go (much) faster in any material sense, though there are those (myself included) who have noticed a quicker spin-up over 5K RPM after installation.

 

Many have relocated the fuel pump and filter and wrapped everything under the tank with reflective insulation in an attempt to ward off the dreaded hot weather heat-soak vapor lock. It is certainly NOT necessary to do any part of this, and (despite the number of believers who will swear on a stack of Guzziologies that it works), IMHO results have been spotty at best. I've left mine alone, never could quite understand wot all the hubub and re-engineering gyrations have been all about, when waiting for the motor to cool solves the problem whenever it (rarely) happens. Yes, in hot weather, with no breeze to cool the stationary motor, a 2000 Sport will tend to heat-soak and vapor lock after a ~20 min. stop after fully warm and not re-start until it cools. For Yours Truly, this has amounted to once maybe every few years or so, and the timing has to be exactly right, or it will light off fine with just a little stumble or 2 whilst getting underway. No big deal, but best beware.

 

I ran the Oknagan with my son from Grand Coulee Dam up to Penticton and Kelowna and back about 10 years ago, but that was in a rental car after flying up to Spokane. Unforgettable. Have been promising myself to do it by moto ever since.

 

I lived in Lake Tahoe for nearly 6 years, but that was decades ago. Had both road and dirt bikes the whole time. Ah, the memories. . . If moto heaven exists, I reckon it's in Tahoe. Have been back many times, and fortunately, it hasn't changed.

..thanks for the info, and I think I will just keep it simple for a while and get the PC3 and a shop stand, and fix the speedo....sounds like yours is working ok with a PC, as well as most of the others, so that is plan A

..what tires have you found that the bike likes best?...mine came with Metzlers, and it's time to change....thinking about the Michelin Pilot Road 2's, or Avon Storm's

...yeah, we are looking forward to our Tahoe trip, been 20 yrs or so, and I can still smell the pine trees!!.....the Kootenay area of B.C. is comparable to ride in...cheers for now..