V11 scura gearbox problem

[ozzydog]

Hello all, I am wondering please if anyone may be able to shed any light on whats happen to my Guzzi. Its a 2003 scura with 21,000 on the clock.I was on the motorway today and suddenly found i couldn't select 4th 5th 6th gear. I pulled over and had a quick look but couldn't see anything wrong at this point so decided to try and limp home. The traffic was heavy so was only travelling 30/40mph when after about 20 miles i noticed plumes of blue smoke behind me. Pulled over and there was oil everywhere and i mean everywhere I got bike recovered but have not had a chance to look at it in any great detail. after a quick look i can't see any obvious place where its come from. I have checked oil in the engine and got the bike running again which it did ok but tried gears again and they are all over the place, i tried to select 4th but it seems to go in but bike doesn't even move like its in neutral. I can't tell if the oil is from the engine or gearbox as its all over the front of the bike as well as the rear. I don't know if its relevant but the bike was running very hot before this happened although to be fair it has been a really hot day, also it had a new clutch etc fitted about 5000 miles ago due to clutch/flywheel problems. I would be really grateful for any ideas or suggestions on what i've done to it Many many thanks for any help

Regards

Heather

[Paul Minnaert]

well, if the oil is still in the engine, it must be gearbox oil. Blue smoke form burning the oil on the exhaust pipes.

 

What you discribe isn't what is the most common: the gearbox spring that brakes. So the question is, why did the oil come out? Can be a broken casing because a gear went trough it. If so, then you are very lucky that the drivetrain hasn't locked the rearwheel suddenly. Serious trouble inside the gearbox can lock the rearwheel, and the clutch doesn't help then. Let us know what is wrong.

[BRENTTODD]

Paul is right you need to pull the side cover off the trans and see whats going on in there before you hurt yourself. When 2nd gear went bad in my bike it cracked the top shaft on the cover so take a look it it when you are pulling it off. There is some kind of trouble inside the trans that needs attention

[pasotibbs]

Hello all, I am wondering please if anyone may be able to shed any light on whats happen to my Guzzi. Its a 2003 scura with 21,000 on the clock.I was on the motorway today and suddenly found i couldn't select 4th 5th 6th gear. I pulled over and had a quick look but couldn't see anything wrong at this point so decided to try and limp home. The traffic was heavy so was only travelling 30/40mph when after about 20 miles i noticed plumes of blue smoke behind me. Pulled over and there was oil everywhere and i mean everywhere I got bike recovered but have not had a chance to look at it in any great detail. after a quick look i can't see any obvious place where its come from. I have checked oil in the engine and got the bike running again which it did ok but tried gears again and they are all over the place, i tried to select 4th but it seems to go in but bike doesn't even move like its in neutral. I can't tell if the oil is from the engine or gearbox as its all over the front of the bike as well as the rear. I don't know if its relevant but the bike was running very hot before this happened although to be fair it has been a really hot day, also it had a new clutch etc fitted about 5000 miles ago due to clutch/flywheel problems. I would be really grateful for any ideas or suggestions on what i've done to it Many many thanks for any help

Regards

Heather

Have a good look around to see if there is any damage to the casing if none are visible then I'd drain the gearbox oil that remains(if any) and see what else falls out! If big bits of metal fall out then its bad and like the others have said, take off the side cover and have a look inside.

If you get a small "christmas tree" on the magnetic plug (tiny metal filings) its probably not terminal some metal here is normal.

 

The gearboxes have been known to act up if they get really hot (as in your situation) and then behave normally when they cool down again but your's throwing its oil out sounds more serious.

One possibility is that if you've ridden in the rain (well you do live in the UK!!) spray off the rear wheel may have got into the 'box (a known fault) and then when it got hot turned to steam and tried to get out again throwing oil everywhere ?

 

It may be that replacing the gear oil will cure it, but I'd be tempted to remove the gearbox cover and check/clean inside before riding again (you can also change the Pawl spring while your there)

If everything checks out then I'd use Redline gear oil as others here suggest.

 

Dave

[ozzydog]

Have a good look around to see if there is any damage to the casing if none are visible then I'd drain the gearbox oil that remains(if any) and see what else falls out! If big bits of metal fall out then its bad and like the others have said, take off the side cover and have a look inside.

If you get a small "christmas tree" on the magnetic plug (tiny metal filings) its probably not terminal some metal here is normal.

 

The gearboxes have been known to act up if they get really hot (as in your situation) and then behave normally when they cool down again but your's throwing its oil out sounds more serious.

One possibility is that if you've ridden in the rain (well you do live in the UK!!) spray off the rear wheel may have got into the 'box (a known fault) and then when it got hot turned to steam and tried to get out again throwing oil everywhere ?

 

It may be that replacing the gear oil will cure it, but I'd be tempted to remove the gearbox cover and check/clean inside before riding again (you can also change the Pawl spring while your there)

If everything checks out then I'd use Redline gear oil as others here suggest.

 

Dave

 

Many thanks for your replies regarding this problem. I thought I'd let you know that after having a better look at the bike and trying some of your suggestions i've found out its engine oil that its throw everywhere, still can't see where its come from though. Removed the drain plug on the gearbox and thankfully no lumps of metal on it, just a few tiny metal filings. The gearbox was full of clean oil which i drained out but I don't know where or how to remove gearbox cover to look inside, my manul for this bike only tells me to remove engine etc etc to get to the gearbox. I checked the engine oil again and found it is lower than it was prior to me going on the trip, dipstick shows it just on the min and it was on max so it must of blown something. I tried it up and down the gears (after refilling with fresh oil) but can still only select 1st,2nd,3rd it will not go up into 4th. I don't think I have the knowledge or skill to fix this and don't wish to make things worse , so I'm gonna phone my nearest dealer and try and book it in. Many thanks for all your comments i'm very grateful and will let you know the outcome asap.

Regards

Heather

[pasotibbs]

Many thanks for your replies regarding this problem. I thought I'd let you know that after having a better look at the bike and trying some of your suggestions i've found out its engine oil that its throw everywhere, still can't see where its come from though. Removed the drain plug on the gearbox and thankfully no lumps of metal on it, just a few tiny metal filings. The gearbox was full of clean oil which i drained out but I don't know where or how to remove gearbox cover to look inside, my manul for this bike only tells me to remove engine etc etc to get to the gearbox. I checked the engine oil again and found it is lower than it was prior to me going on the trip, dipstick shows it just on the min and it was on max so it must of blown something. I tried it up and down the gears (after refilling with fresh oil) but can still only select 1st,2nd,3rd it will not go up into 4th. I don't think I have the knowledge or skill to fix this and don't wish to make things worse , so I'm gonna phone my nearest dealer and try and book it in. Many thanks for all your comments i'm very grateful and will let you know the outcome asap.

Regards

Heather

Engine oil leak may be from the breather pipe on top of the engine,it goes from the rear of the engine up to the frame near the coils/headstock.

I think this does throw oil all over if it splits so may be worth checking ?

Hopefully the gearbox fault is just a selector issue and easily fixed.

 

Dave

[Baldini]

...traffic was heavy so was only travelling 30/40mph when after about 20 miles i noticed plumes of blue smoke behind me....I don't know if its relevant but the bike was running very hot before this happened although to be fair it has been a really hot day, also it had a new clutch etc fitted about 5000 miles ago due to clutch/flywheel problems.....

 

Sorry to hear your problems.

What gear/revs were you running for that 20 miles before smoke?

What problems did you have with clutch/flywheel?

KB

[twhitaker]

There are several hoses that connect the spine frame to the crankcase. Perhaps one of those sprang a leak. There is a pressure connection at the top in front that oils the heads. It's possible that has come loose or even blown up. Next in line could be the oil cooler sprung a leak.

[ozzydog]

Sorry to hear your problems.

What gear/revs were you running for that 20 miles before smoke?

What problems did you have with clutch/flywheel?

KB

 

I was in 3rd gear most of the time, revs were about 5000/6000rpm max, due to it being the M25 the traffic was very heavy so that was lucky in a way. I was travelling two up with camping gear etc. I 'd had the bike about 4 months when clutch stopped working , had alot of problems with dealer getting it sorted which I posted about on here ( had to re-register as can't use my old username for some reason?) The end result was new clutch and flywheel I think. Couldn't get dealer to give me full details of what had gone on but been its been running ok up till now. I am going to go and take the tank off and check some of these pipes to see if something has split.

regards

Heather

[Paul Minnaert]

it would be a big coincindence if oil from the engine and a non working gearbox would happen at the same time. But it can :-).

The gearbox has 4 shafts where the gears are on. So it's not a row from 1 to 6. If you really want to look inside, you need to remove the starter engine, behind that is a door you can takeoff. But I don't think you can do much when you don't know where to look at.

 

Call your dealer to pick it up.

[ozzydog]

it would be a big coincindence if oil from the engine and a non working gearbox would happen at the same time. But it can :-).

The gearbox has 4 shafts where the gears are on. So it's not a row from 1 to 6. If you really want to look inside, you need to remove the starter engine, behind that is a door you can takeoff. But I don't think you can do much when you don't know where to look at.

 

Call your dealer to pick it up.

 

I completey agree with that, at first I just assumed it was gearbox oil but I've just found a split in the large breather hose on top of the engine, couldn't see it at first too much oil and its right where the jubilee clip sits but now i've got the tank off its definately split. I didn't know were to start looking as had oil all over the fairing, forks, front wheel as well as all over the engine/gearbox and rear wheel. I don't know why that should happen at the same time as the gearbox packs up, maybe it was on its way out and the extra heat just finished it off ? I've found that when this bike goes wrong it always does so in a big way That said when its going well its brilliant, just not having much luck! Anyway the bike is now booked into dealer but I had to hire a van to get it there so we'll see what happens, they were rather miffed on the phone but very helpful. Many thanks to everyone for your advice especially to Pasotibbs and twhitaker for suggesting the hoses, I will sleep better tonight knowing where that oil came from , will let you know the outcome...

Many thanks

Heather

[Guest ratchethack]

. . .i've found out its engine oil that its throw everywhere, still can't see where its come from though. . . .

My vote is with the others above on a failed breather hose. It runs from the top rear of the engine case just in front of the flywheel housing, forward and up to the in-frame oil condensor just behind and under the steering head, where it's most likely to've let go. For a replacement for lot$ le$$ than a molded Guzzi hose, you can use higher grade than OE chem and temp resistant bulk hose with one each 90 and 135 degree "ells" in it. I've done this with wot now appears to be solid success after many years with nary as much as a weep or a seep. Small warning: Limited access ensures getting the old one out and a new one in will be wot The Oracle of Bungendore has famously referred to as, "a right frontbottom". Since you evidently speak Oz, by your handle, I'm sure there's no meaning lost there. Other 'n that, it's pretty straightforward.

I tried it up and down the gears (after refilling with fresh oil) but can still only select 1st,2nd,3rd it will not go up into 4th. I don't think I have the knowledge or skill to fix this and don't wish to make things worse , so I'm gonna phone my nearest dealer and try and book it in.

On the old rule o' thumb, "Check Thee The Simple Things First", before you go shipping your ride off to terra incognito, (where many things other 'n wot riders want can, and actually have been known to happen to Guzzi's behind closed doors ) I'd at least make sure your shifter linkage is intact first. It could save you substantial $$ and time. On both mine and a Pal's LM, the linkage bolt on the short arm mounted to the gearbox shaft had gradually backed out, making for progressively more sloppy shifts on the "Changed so little over so long I never realized until it wouldn't work" plan. The linkage should be very nearly 100% slop-free, which can be easily and quickly checked by getting down under the starter motor for a look-see-feel.

 

Good luck.

[ozzydog]

Hello again, just thought i'd give you an update. The gearbox problem turned out to be the gear linkage had seized and needed to be stripped and greased, the mechanic was rather miffed by this as he says he never seen it happen before

The oil did come from the large breather hose that goes up under the tank, it had split were the clip holds it on. However the "dealer" decided not to replace it as he didn't have one in stock. i did mention that it had a lot of surface cracks when i dropped the bike off. He said it would be fine. What i found out today when i went to pick it up was that he'd just cut down the old one, he still said that it would be fine. I got 20 miles down the road and found out that it wasn't "fine" as it split again at the other end covering everything in oil. Phoned dealer who reluctantly agreed to collect it off the m1 in about 4hrs time so had to push it up M1 to service area. when we got back to the shop he said "oh I won't charge you for the collection" !! I should bloody well think not considering he bodged it. Then told us it had ruined his day at which point i nearly lost it as pushing a guzzi up the hard shoulder of a motorway for nearly a mile was not my idea of fun! Then had to spend another £70 on a train ticket to get home. While at the shop he said he never checked the rest of the hose or the top end as its usually ok Very Sorry for ranting but have just got back and i'm not impressed with this dealer so far. They are now shut for 2/3 weeks for summer holidays and can't order the part till they return so thats my biking holiday cancelled this August! Guess i should try and be positive at least its nothing too serious

Anyway thanks again for all your help and hopefully at some point this year she'll be back on the road

Cheers

Heather

[Guest ratchethack]

Hm. Perhaps you'll forgive me if I'm not all that overly sympathetic with your rant, Heather.

 

I reckon you must've missed my comments altogether in post #12 (just above your last) -- maybe my post was too much for you to read -- or maybe my suggestions just looked like too much effort on your part?

 

Now I fully understand that not everyone is handy with tools. But it seems that at a bare minimum, an informed quick and simple 10 second inspection above and below on your part (no tools needed) might've saved you considerable grief, time, and cost -- not to mention pushing the Guzzi, the train ride, a repetition of the great oily mess, an odious harangue with an incompetent dealer, etc. -- and on top of all this, could've quite easily even had you back on the road 10 days ago. . .

 

This Forum is a GOLD MINE of information for those willing to learn and actually take on at least SOME of the responsibility of properly maintaining their own Guzzi's with a little effort -- regardless of experience level. Is there no practical DIY self-sufficiency and personal involvement with the machine in some riders a-tall anymore??

 

Enquiring minds. . .(well, you know). . .

[Skeeve]

Hello again, just thought i'd give you an update. The gearbox problem turned out to be the gear linkage had seized and needed to be stripped and greased, the mechanic was rather miffed by this as he says he never seen it happen before

The oil did come from the large breather hose that goes up under the tank, it had split were the clip holds it on. However the "dealer" decided not to replace it as he didn't have one in stock. i did mention that it had a lot of surface cracks when i dropped the bike off. He said it would be fine. What i found out today when i went to pick it up was that he'd just cut down the old one, he still said that it would be fine. I got 20 miles down the road and found out that it wasn't "fine" as it split again at the other end covering everything in oil. Phoned dealer who reluctantly agreed to collect it off the m1 in about 4hrs time so had to push it up M1 to service area. when we got back to the shop he said "oh I won't charge you for the collection" !! I should bloody well think not considering he bodged it. Then told us it had ruined his day at which point i nearly lost it as pushing a guzzi up the hard shoulder of a motorway for nearly a mile was not my idea of fun! Then had to spend another £70 on a train ticket to get home. While at the shop he said he never checked the rest of the hose or the top end as its usually ok Very Sorry for ranting but have just got back and i'm not impressed with this dealer so far. They are now shut for 2/3 weeks for summer holidays and can't order the part till they return so thats my biking holiday cancelled this August! Guess i should try and be positive at least its nothing too serious

Anyway thanks again for all your help and hopefully at some point this year she'll be back on the road

Cheers

Heather

 

Check the forum for a thread on replacing the sadly inadequate Guzzi stock part with a cut-down unit from a Fnord? or maybe GM? (cage) product. It seems the higher volume of car production merits rubber products that actually retain the oil returning to the crankcase...