electrical nightmare

[Kiwi_Roy]

Slavek,

I scanned back through the thread and the symptoms seemed to change so i'm not sure what your current (pardon the pun) problem is exactly.

Please tell us what the problem is at the moment, lack of charge, blowing fuses, non working charge light or whatever?

With as much information as you can add.

What regulator have you installed at the moment?

If it's a charging issue, did you try any of the tests in my attachment?

Do you have an Ammeter with at least 10 Amp range?

I wait your reply.

Roy

[Slavomir Musilek (R.I.P.)]

I really appreciate your help Roy.

 

Current problem is: no charge at all and not working tachometer. Headlight is working OK. Now I am running OEM rectifier and Yuasa battery.

 

I have added external 30A fuse holder and new thick wire going directly from - pole to rectifier

 

 

Slavek

[Kiwi_Roy]

[quote name='Slavomir Musilek' date='13 May 2010 - 01:45 AM' timestamp='1273733101' post='170700'

Current problem is: no charge at all and not working tachometer. Headlight is working OK. Now I am running OEM rectifier and Yuasa battery.

Slavek

We know for a fact that the regulator needs 12V from the headlight circuit to make it work.

We also know that the tachometer also needs 12V from the headlight circuit.

A few posts back you said you have 12V at the two pin connector, something doesn't add up.

 

My bike has a somewhat similar problem, the battery seems to charge for a while but then stops. I also noticed the tacho drops to zero on occasions and the charge warning light comes on, not allways at the same time.

 

I suspect that your bike like mine has 12V at the regulator intermittently. Last time I rode the charge light flickered independent of revs but the headlight stayed on.

I will strip mine down tonight and find where that joint is. In the meantime if you can put a small wire into the 2 pin regulator plug an monitor the voltage with a small lamp to chassis it might be usefull.

I'm starting to think bad joint somewhere.

Have you tried measuring current from regulator to battery?

 

You said a few posts back "white wire from rectifier connects to blue in harness, should I focus on this one?"

Is this the same joint I'm talking about?

[Slavomir Musilek (R.I.P.)]

We know for a fact that the regulator needs 12V from the headlight circuit to make it work.

We also know that the tachometer also needs 12V from the headlight circuit.

A few posts back you said you have 12V at the two pin connector, something doesn't add up.

 

correct, headlight is connected, bulb is ok, as well as LH control. Tacho is dead. On both wires of the two pin connector I read 12V

 

 

Is this the same joint I'm talking about?

 

Yes. The two pin going from rectifier to harness

[Kiwi_Roy]

correct, headlight is connected, bulb is ok, as well as LH control. Tacho is dead. On both wires of the two pin connector I read 12V

Yes. The two pin going from rectifier to harness

Charging Issue

Insert your ammeter in series with the two red wires/large wire to 30Amp fuse to measure if any current at all going to the battery. If you don't have ammeter see attached

You do have a good ground on your regulator?

It's possible to have 12V with a bad connection or perhaps the it dissapears after starting, pull the connector apart part way so it's still connected to the regulator and measure it to chassis, engine running.

Make sure all the conectors are tight, squeeze them with a pair of pliers if a bit loose.

Check the two yellow wires from the alternator, you should get a low resistance.

With the engine running measure voltage between yellow wires just work them out a little bit to get your meter on.

 

Logicly

If you have AC on the yellow wires

AND 12V to ground on the red black

AND the wire to battery is OK

AND no current going to the battery, the only thing it can be is the regulator

 

I assume you are following the other thread on topic "Charging light inoperable"

 

Tacho Issue

One Red/Black wire goes from the wire joins via the plug on right hand side to the instrument panel where it splits 4 ways to lights and tacho. The tacho also has a negative, measure voltage across the two terminals. Make sure they are connected to the right terminal (it's marked on tacho) and you have 12 V with key on

The third wire runs from the pin 3 of the ECU via a dedicated plug socket adjacent to it and another dedicated plug near the multipin.

You can check the other wire by measuring resistance from tacho all the way back to pin 3 at the ECU. If you find it broken check the section from tacho to the first plug at tank, it might have broken where it flexes at the steering head.

 

I tore my harness apart this evening, the Red/Black wires are all soldered together under the jacket just about in the middle of the tank, in fact there's lots of joints there soldered and covered with heat shrink, heres the good news, the solder joints are very well done with good quality solder. Oh well, scratch something else off the list.

Troubleshooting Tips.pdf

[Kiwi_Roy]

As you know for the past couple of weeks I have been chasing a elusive fault, battery goes flat, the engine spits and starts every now and then and the tacho occasionally drops to zero, charge light comes on randomly.

This evening I strapped my multimeter to the tank and connected to the two red wires from the regulator, the negative terminal I put under one of the radiator screws.

I expected to see the battery charging but to my surprise the voltage would jump from 12-15-10-13 all over the map.

even with the voltage showing 9.5 Volts the bike cranked over easy.

From this I have deduced that I have a bad ground somewhere, probably Negative to Chassis, this would explain at least the charging and tacho, hopefully the missing also.

 

I suggest you check your ground to engine and to the chassis, perhaps add another between engine and Chassis

Hope this helps

Roy

[lemppari]

As you know for the past couple of weeks I have been chasing a elusive fault, battery goes flat, the engine spits and starts every now and then and the tacho occasionally drops to zero, charge light comes on randomly.

This evening I strapped my multimeter to the tank and connected to the two red wires from the regulator, the negative terminal I put under one of the radiator screws.

I expected to see the battery charging but to my surprise the voltage would jump from 12-15-10-13 all over the map.

even with the voltage showing 9.5 Volts the bike cranked over easy.

From this I have deduced that I have a bad ground somewhere, probably Negative to Chassis, this would explain at least the charging and tacho, hopefully the missing also.

 

I suggest you check your ground to engine and to the chassis, perhaps add another between engine and Chassis

Hope this helps

Roy

I had the same experience plus the tacho and lights went dead. Voltage was anything between 9.8 and 18.6 V. The culprit was a loose connection at relay base under relay n:o 2. Roy has posted an excellent pic of how you remedy that. Not a hitch afterwords (knocks on head, err wood).

[Kiwi_Roy]

I had the same experience plus the tacho and lights went dead. Voltage was anything between 9.8 and 18.6 V. The culprit was a loose connection at relay base under relay n:o 2. Roy has posted an excellent pic of how you remedy that. Not a hitch afterwords (knocks on head, err wood).

Ok, I spent the best part of the weekend tracking down the problem (Intermittent tacho failure), this was a "Red Herring"

I put small lamps across the 12V +/- terminals of the tacho and regulator +reference to ground, these never flickered even when the tacho stopped working.

Measuring the battery voltage at the terminal posts I found it was jumping around anything from 10.5 - 13 with the tacho dropping to zero

each time it was low.

Conclusion - it's the regulator, this has been my gut feeling all along but in the meantime I have been over the whole bike and fixed up

a few loose connections and potential trouble spots so the time wasn't wasted.

I was amazed that the bike will still crank over with battery voltage as low as 10.5 volts, I bought a new one last year and treated it well all winter but i'm

starting to wonder if just one cell is bad.

Roy

[lemppari]

Ok, I spent the best part of the weekend tracking down the problem (Intermittent tacho failure), this was a "Red Herring"

I put small lamps across the 12V +/- terminals of the tacho and regulator +reference to ground, these never flickered even when the tacho stopped working.

Measuring the battery voltage at the terminal posts I found it was jumping around anything from 10.5 - 13 with the tacho dropping to zero

each time it was low.

Conclusion - it's the regulator, this has been my gut feeling all along but in the meantime I have been over the whole bike and fixed up

a few loose connections and potential trouble spots so the time wasn't wasted.

I was amazed that the bike will still crank over with battery voltage as low as 10.5 volts, I bought a new one last year and treated it well all winter but i'm

starting to wonder if just one cell is bad.

Roy

 

It sure is a lot easier with the old LM I,the only electrics being lights and ignition. Very easy to diagnose which you most often have to do anyway because of old wire harness. Something to do come next winter IF my Rosso Mandello holds it together.....

[The Monkey]

Ok, I spent the best part of the weekend tracking down the problem (Intermittent tacho failure), this was a "Red Herring"

I put small lamps across the 12V +/- terminals of the tacho and regulator +reference to ground, these never flickered even when the tacho stopped working.

Measuring the battery voltage at the terminal posts I found it was jumping around anything from 10.5 - 13 with the tacho dropping to zero

each time it was low.

Conclusion - it's the regulator, this has been my gut feeling all along but in the meantime I have been over the whole bike and fixed up

a few loose connections and potential trouble spots so the time wasn't wasted.

I was amazed that the bike will still crank over with battery voltage as low as 10.5 volts, I bought a new one last year and treated it well all winter but i'm

starting to wonder if just one cell is bad.

Roy

 

 

The "regulator game". I had mine pooch on me up in the Shuswap 3 weeks ago, it was new and replaced last November with the stator. I got the stator from Euro Motoelectrics in Colorada (half the price of alternator here in Canada, not to mention the local couldnt supply anything but complete alternator) and had the local shop get me a reg. That $350 reg lasted 4 days travel. So I had a Kamloops shop verify the trouble and swap reg with same unit and returned the faulty reg, local shop claims they havn't had troubles with these regulators-unit 321-1649....we'll see about that. Just thought I would mention the Colorado shop Roy as they have replacement units for the original reg for $140 and another updated one for $109. I have grounded the reg to the bell housing in addition to stock ground and installed headlight relays, my battery is about a year and a half old- Yuasa Japan. I get 13.25-13.50 volts at the battery @ 3k, considering the bike is run long trips only the battery is well charged and I wouldnt expect the 14+ volts readings others are reporting (should I?). Where would you tie in a voltguage Roy? or would it be better to install an ammeter? Just did a 700km tyre break in day and all seems happy. Havent ridden at night yet but my light looks a hell of a lot brighter reflected in the back panels of the vehicles I overtake. Thanks for your help Roy. Hope the Colorado connection works for ya.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Where would you tie in a voltguage

If you are mounting it at the instrument panel I think I would jumper it onto the back of the tacho or with one of the panel lights, that way it will be protected by a fuse. Without the headlight loading down the circuit you shouldn't have any voltage drop.

Another spot would be the ignition switch wiring.

The problem with using an ammeter would be the long leads back to the battery area (unless you use a shunt and mV meter), perhaps under the seat to pick up all but the starter circuit. that would eliminate a couple of the wires on battery post.

I have the Yuasa battery from B&I (USA) new last fall. I drilled the hole in lead terminal right through so I could add a decent length bolt.

I'm going to have a crack at building my own regulator, there doesn't seem to be a reliable one out there so I can't do much worse.

I did some preliminary testing and I think there is more power available in the low rev range than what the stock regs are putting out.

The regulator is a pretty critical item, especially on a trip away there's no reason they should be failing like that.

Roy

[Slavomir Musilek (R.I.P.)]

so, bike if finally charging, I mounted new aftermarket rectifier (VAPE). Old one was somehow toasted, charging but very low or not charging at all. Tacho is still offline, have to focus on this later.

 

Strange things are going on in my harness maybe, the end of the world is getting close

 

thanks a lot Roy and Docc for all inspiring hints!

 

Slavek

[Kiwi_Roy]

so, bike if finally charging, I mounted new aftermarket rectifier (VAPE). Old one was somehow toasted, charging but very low or not charging at all. Tacho is still offline, have to focus on this later.

 

Strange things are going on in my harness maybe, the end of the world is getting close

 

thanks a lot Roy and Docc for all inspiring hints!

 

Slavek

Check for 12V at the tacho

Check for continuity of the wire from ECU to tacho, there are two connectors, one near the ECU and another near the multipin plug at front of tank.

This wire brings the pulses that the tacho uses to calculate revs.

Roy

[lemppari]

I did some preliminary testing and I think there is more power available in the low rev range than what the stock regs are putting out.

The regulator is a pretty critical item, especially on a trip away there's no reason they should be failing like that.

Roy

 

Again, in my old LM I, I had an aftermarket reg/rectifier from Silent Hektik which claimed just that: it gave more juice in low revs. The previous owner had had it attached to inside of the generator cover, so being partly of plastic it went and melted! Now it is replaced by a newer version made of metal and works fine. In older big blocks it was commonly known that the factory reg only starts delivering at higher revs.

[raz]

I don't think the stock one is as bad as some belives. My first one kept up in 75.000 kms or 11 years of weather. Not the world record, but fair enough given I don't know what abuse it went through. There is supposedly no overload protection in it, and my bike don't have the 30A fuse that V11's have...

 

My new OEM one exceeds 13 volts even at cold idling just below 1000 rpm right after cranking (so probably delivering significant current to the battery). This despite an extra 5A load of a wideband sensor, and headlight turned on. Off idle it very soon reaches 14 volts.

 

The regulator spec. is 14.2 volts. I played with the idea of adding a small signal diode in series with the sense wire to the regulator. I reckon that would make it want to put out 14.9 volts instead, just below the (AGM) battery spec. of 15 volts max charge. But I decided I have absolutely no need for that other than the tinkering itself. It would just make all bulbs last shorter. On my ol' bike, it's far easier setting valves and greasing all three nipples on the driveshaft than replacing the headlight bulb