throttle set up issue HELP

[Guest ratchethack]

Still no credible reply to my challenge wotsoever -- even after 2 years. That, Dave, is truly boring. . .

 

. . .And where's your evidence that I ever called the folks at G&G Big Bore liars?

. . .Then he said that my bike looked like a "HAYABUSA KILLER", which I assured him it was. If even the uninitiated can recognize this, (albeit a different model by the same manufacturer) the truth is truly irrefutable. THE MYTH IS NOW BUSTED.

As it happens, it's always the uninitiated who're incapable of separating hollow dreams and empty wishes from reality. . .

 

If wishes were Guzzi's, (in some cases, they evidently are) , then beggars will ride.

 

Can't back up either your fantasy claims, or your accusations of slander, can you, Dave?

 

. . .[sigh]. . .waddayagonna do?. . .

[Karl Von]

For now we will leave the bike as it is, My brother wants to keep is stock, since one day it may be a collectable. A example is a local guy who had a 1000s small valve. He was wanting top dollar but it was all customized and missing the stock bits.

 

It seems to run fine and starts right up. Before it took forever to start and idles great. I think the problem was what the tech said about the bike being way to lean. I need to put a few more in town miles before I am 100% happy with it. The guys at Dynotune in Sarasota told me to see if there were any running issues and if so bring it back.

 

I thought the bike was surging when cruising but now I think it is a overly touchy light throttle. Just the slightest movement and it changes the engine speed, which makes it feel like the bike is surging. With the low clip-ons and running on all the tore up roads around Tampa your hands move the throttle a bit.

 

As for the big dip, they said they worked on that for a while but could not do anything with it. It is strange that the HP or the air-fuel line does not dip.

[Guest ratchethack]

I thought the bike was surging when cruising but now I think it is a overly touchy light throttle. Just the slightest movement and it changes the engine speed, which makes it feel like the bike is surging. With the low clip-ons and running on all the tore up roads around Tampa your hands move the throttle a bit.

Karl, this one hasn't come up in many years, but I found that it took an unacceptable toll on the enjoyment of riding until I came up with a remedy that has improved things a great deal (though not entirely eliminating it 100%) about 5 years back. It came up in a thread on gear lash here:

 

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?...essive&st=0

 

. . .which is a closely related contributor to the problem. Can't do anything about the angular gaps between engagement dogs and their paired slots in the gearsets, but you can do something like this:

 

 

I can interchange the custom progressive throttle cam with the OE cam without adjusting a thing.

 

Just an idea.

[Motomonster]

http://www.electraeon.com/throttlecam.html

 

[gstallons]

What is the part # for the throttle cam on your bike? How much?

[Motomonster]

It's the "type 2." It cost about $40. Notice, though, it's for the earlier, single-cable throttle set ups. I don't know what the 2003's have.

[Guest ratchethack]

I thought the bike was surging when cruising but now I think it is a overly touchy light throttle. Just the slightest movement and it changes the engine speed, which makes it feel like the bike is surging.

Karl, per the thread at the link in my post above, the key to smoothing out the "herky jerky" by making the throttle less sensitive at crusing and trailing-throttle openings is to go to a TB throttle cam with a more progressive curve than OE. The OE cam is already slightly progressive. What you want is a larger radius at idle, transitioning to a smaller radius at WOT. If you go to a constant-radius cam, it will actually make the problem you're trying to solve worse than it already is with the OE cam.

 

Make sense?

 

FWIW, there's also an internal cam at the twist grip end of the cable with 2 cam profile choices, giving 2 different leverage ratios. Mine came from Mandello with the cable end set in the right one for the problem you note. It requires more twist rotation at the grip for less throttle opening, with less wrist effort. The other choice makes it an ultra-fast <1/4 turn twist from idle to WOT, and takes noticeably more wrist effort. You might want to check yours and maybe lube it and the cable while you're in there.

 

A side-benefit of a more progressive throttle cam at the TB is significantly decreased wrist fatigue at sustained cruising speeds than possible with the OE TB cam.

 

Hope this helps.

[Karl Von]

I will give this a try, it should do the trick. I am also going to see if this might work on my Cantauro

 

thanks

[Karl Von]

After putting some miles on the bike, I have notoced it has a bad surge or flutter around 3500 to 4500 rpm only if you hold it there. That is about the RPM that you used for in town running, 45 to 50 MPH in 3rd. I am going to take it back to the tuners to see if they can do something. It is at that range in the above print out where there is a huge dip in the curve.

[Skeeve]

(Again): Please provide credible evidence of the existence of a V11-based DOHC water cooled 4V 1400 cc G&G Big Bore motor in a V11 chassis. Just one will do.[/b][/size]

 

In all fairness, Ratch', Big Bores are 2v motors, so you're setting Dave up for an impossible task...

 

Or are you subscribing to the bizarre "total valves per motor" description that Guzzi has used for the QV motors? I wish everyone would just refuse to get on that particularly lame bandwagon, & stick w/ referrering to the # of valves/cylinder, as is the norm. You'll notice that I have consistently referred to Guzzi's new 4 valvers as "QV" [ie, "quattro valvole"] to avoid confusion...

[dlaing]

I have never mentioned the C&G 8 Valve DOHC water cooled engine before, but there you go, one more option, but the Spine frame might get in the the way of the throttle bodies.

http://www.gg2.it/

 

I had mentioned the Big Bore® two valve per cylinder water cooled kit, that fits most big block Guzzis.

The engine kit was used to modify an MGS01 to win at Daytona.

There have also been photos of the kit beautifully installed in a Griso.

There is NO reason it can't be installed in a V11, and to suggest otherwise is dead wrong.

It is a very pricey option, but it is a REAL option.

[dlaing]

Still no credible reply to my challenge wotsoever -- even after 2 years. That, Dave, is truly boring. . .

 

. . .And where's your evidence that I ever called the folks at G&G Big Bore liars?

I have made the credible reply that I have not seen a V11 with a Big Bore kit, that does not mean that one cannot fit such a kit.

I did not say you were calling Big Bore (not C&G) liars. I said "Are you calling the folks at Big Bore liars when they say the kit can be fitted to a V11?"

Just admit the kit can be fit and move on.

[Guest ratchethack]

In all fairness, Ratch', Big Bores are 2v motors, so you're setting Dave up for an impossible task...

 

Or are you subscribing to the bizarre "total valves per motor" description that Guzzi has used for the QV motors? I wish everyone would just refuse to get on that particularly lame bandwagon, & stick w/ referrering to the # of valves/cylinder, as is the norm. You'll notice that I have consistently referred to Guzzi's new 4 valvers as "QV" [ie, "quattro valvole"] to avoid confusion...

Hmm. Interesting choice of pet peeves, Skeeve.

 

Leave us by all means uphold the utmost standards of fairness at all times WRT challenges on this here Forum!

 

Though I've always tried my best to maintain a sizeable pet peeve bucket myself, and generally keep it full to overflowing, this one sure ain't in it. Frankly, I hadn't really given valve numbering conventions all that much thought, since by my experience, OEMs tend to use both "per cylinder" and "total per motor" -- either one, as you point out above -- and I don't find any CONSENSUS on it wotsoever. Nor do I find any particularly lame bandwagons rolling around the landscape here.

 

FWIW, I happen to've owned 3ea. DOHC 4's, all from different mfgr's., all with 4V/cyl., and all have "16V" cast into the cam covers -- including the one I'm working on now, even as this post is saved on Jaap's disk. So "16V" doesn't seem all that bizarre to me at the moment. . . D'you reckon someone might be confused enough to b'lieve these motors have 16 valves per cylinder (??)

 

As far as setting Dave up for an impossible task, I reckon he's done a truly spectacular job entirely on his own. All I've done is challenge him to back up his claims with any credible evidence. So far, there ain't been squat. . . As far as my multiple challenges to Dave are concerned, he can count valves (or cams, for that matter) any way he wants. Fair enough?

[dlaing]

As far as setting Dave up for an impossible task, I reckon he's done a spectacular job of doing exactly that entirely on his own. All I've done is challenge him to back up his claims with any credible evidence. So far, there ain't been squat. . . As far as I'm concerned, Dave can count valves (or cams, for that matter) any way he wants. Fair enough?

No, you are challenging me to prove something that I have never claimed.

You have claimed that you cant turn a V11 into a Hayabusa beater and I have shown that on paper you can. Get over it. You lost dude.

For those just joining us, I am defining the Hayabusa beater as bike that can beat a bone stock, top speed regulated, Hayabusa from the model year that this conversation began, on the street, ridden by your typical forum member, with heavier set ones doing better on the V11 spine, since it would have the best possible custom suspension while the Hayabusa would be wallowing on the stock suspension and tire set up.

There is evidence of V11's that weigh nearly 100 pounds less than a Hayabusa. Combined with top notch suspension and tires and that alone is enough to "win" on most streets.

It is possible to build the Big Bore kit up to 160HP which is close to the Hayabusa's stock 175HP.

I don't know if that is RWHP or HP at the piston ring, but I do know it is powerful enough to win Daytona.

Strip the Guzzi's weight down and the HP:weight ratio changes in Guzzis favor.

Yes of course one could build the Hayabusa up to 300+HP, or strip its weight down and spring it properly, but we are talking a very non-stock Guzzi going up against a bone stock, 300kph top speed regulated, on the street, with average and equal sport bike riders, pushing it as hard as they are comfortable with.

[Guest ratchethack]

No, you are challenging me to prove something that I have never claimed.

Get over it. You lost dude.

Dave, I gotta admit -- this^ is pretty funny, as far as pure comedy goes. It reminds me of that late, great International Comedian, Saddam Hussein. You’ll recall that ol' Saddy came up with one of the greatest side-splitters of all time as he was fished out of his filthy spider hole. When they finally dragged him out, he immediately claimed victory and declared his captors were all under arrest -- just before he was tried, convicted, and promptly assumed room temperature at the hands of his countrymen. Priceless stuff, true Classic material, and you simply can’t make this kinda thing up.

 

 

"I am victorious! You're all under arrest!"

-- ol' Saddy sure was freakin’ hilarious

 

Saddam would no doubt be proud of you for claiming victory here, Dave -- but (and this is just me) if I were entertaining his 72 virgins, I don’t s’pose I could possibly care less. . .

 

Frankly, I’m rapidly getting to the point where I'm beyond further interest in chasing your hallucinations myself.

 

But by all means, do wake me up when you’ve finally found any credible evidence for the existence of your V11 Hyperbike Slayer and/or your V11 Hayabusa Eater – Until then, see if you can conduct your search without prematurely attempting to snatch victory from the jaws of absurdity, while continuing to fail to answer my challenges, won’t you? This behavior is not only positively Saddamesque. . . But beyond that, like the crocodile head-clamp you’ve been known to favor whilst taking your traditional bath in the infamous Swamp o' Confusion, it simply ain‘t a good look, Dave. . .

 

 

It’s gotta hurt somethin’ awful, too

 

You have claimed that you cant turn a V11 into a Hayabusa beater and I have shown that on paper you can.

Err, not hardly, Dave. I worked out the power to weight ratios for you 2 years ago (which you ignored). The idea of a V11 overcoming a 270% power-to-weight deficit against an R1 (for example) is nothing short of preposterous, Dave. No matter how you attempt to twist, distort, and ignore the facts, you can't get around them. The power-to-weight deficit is likely the best, but by no means the ONLY reason you haven’t been able to find one single example of wot you insist COULD exist with a V11 motor and chassis.

 

I will (again) point out -- also using NO V11 motor parts, exactly as you've always attempted to do -- that I can every bit as meaninglessly show you ON PAPER that a V11 chassis with a Saturn V booster rocket attached can take both you and your V11 past escape velocity, and put you both on your favorite trajectory to the purple planet. . . [sigh]. . . But unless YOU fund that particular project, Dave, I reckon no one else will, either -- it's the same problem with every other non-V11 motor idea you've proposed. . .

 

AGAIN – I’ve simply asked you to provide an existing example of what you’ve claimed can exist – as if it EVER DID exist.

 

-- As always, just one will do. . . [sigh]. . .

 

Let's review the actual record, shall we?

 

. . .It is possible to bring a V11 nearly up to the level of performance of a BOT champion and for the most part, beyond the performance level of the fastest big four stock hyperbikes.

Errr, right. [. . . sigh . . .]

 

Now that you've made the above statement as firm as you can 3 different ways, Dave -- the burden of proof is on YOU.

 

All you have to do to save face now, Dave, is hunt one of these mythical creatures down and bring credible proof of its existence back to Earth with you next time you happen to be in the same solar system. . .

 

Happy hunting . . .

 

Be sure to give a big, "Hey!" to Elvis and Bigfoot, and warmest regards to The Tooth Fairy.

Honestly, Dave. You (still) have neither any personal experience with what you claim can exist – ZERO – nor are there any examples to back up your claims. In other words, you've dreamed up something that not only doesn't exist -- (a V11 by definition has both a V11 chassis AND a V11 motor) -- IT CANNOT EXIST.

 

As long as we're at it (again) why not take this silly thing a step further than it's gone in over 2 years, just so's we can proceed with the inevitable, and bury it so deep it can't ever crawl back out? PLEASE. . . I'm begging you. . .

 

Now then. I'm about to ask you an ALL NEW QUESTION, which opens an ALL NEW CHALLENGE for you, Dave.

 

This time, I do b'lieve I've left you mighty skimpy wiggle room for the trademarked and copyrighted dlaing double twist with a back flip in the pike position -- though having learned my lessons well, I'm quite certain that you'll apply your usual combo backspin, sidespin, and tailspin gyrations, and otherwise doctor up your delivery very heavily, in a futile attempt to drop it off sharply, late, into the upper inside corner. . .

 

READY? HERE IT IS:

 

Why do you suppose it is that you haven't been able to find one single V11 motor in a V11 chassis anywhere on the Blue planet that is, in your exact words above, "beyond the performance level of the fastest big four stock hyperbikes" ??

 

Enquiring minds. . . (well, you know). . .

 

There's more solid, credible evidence of Bigfoot (and lots more of it -- not only photo's, but footprints!) than there is of credible, objective, independently derived performance capability of a "V-11 Hayabusa eater".

EDIT: There was a guy named Patterson who famously captured some number of seconds of a Bigfoot on film, as the beast strode off into the woods. Maybe you can get Patterson to track down your V11 Hayabusa/Hyperbike Eater and catch a few seconds of a V11 (with both a V11 motor and chassis, of course) taking a win against a Hayabusa/Hyperbike with pilots of equivalent talent on each, in a legitimate, authorized drag race -- or better yet, a legitimate track or road racing event??

 

The Patterson Bigfoot clip is on YouTube now:

 

http://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play?p...d=0001537055204

 

And yet. . . there's STILL no footage wotsoever of a V11 Hayabusa/Hyperbike Slayer/Eater/Killer anywhere to be found. . .

 

Good luck (again) -- and I mean it! HINT: No one here’s been holding their breath for over 2 years and counting -- myself included.