V11 with Ohlins or Griso 1100?

[Lloyd67]

I might be going off at a bit of a tangent here but am I the only one to notice that quite a few of us here have a Griso and a v11? I think that says it all. How many owners of other lesser marques would own such seemingly similar yet fundamentally different bikes from one manufacturer? A mate once proclaimed his bewilderment that I had three bikes that were "exactly the same". I gave up any thought of trying to explain since I knew that he just wouldn't get it...as he climbed onto his Honda twintub.

[pete roper]

Is there that much difference between the 1100 & 1200 Grisos? Are they not both 8 valves? I dunno which one is BFG's?

 

 

Yeah, The 1100 still uses the old pushrod donk but with twin plugs and smaller throttle bodies. The 1200 is a completely new top end with 8V and cam in head like the Daytona/Centauro but with chain drive to the cams up the back of the cylinders. Effectively liquid cooled with 'air assist' it runs twin oil pumps, one to cool and one to lubricate.

 

Dave's is a 1200-8V.

 

Pete

[Steve G.]

I might be going off at a bit of a tangent here but am I the only one to notice that quite a few of us here have a Griso and a v11? I think that says it all. How many owners of other lesser marques would own such seemingly similar yet fundamentally different bikes from one manufacturer? A mate once proclaimed his bewilderment that I had three bikes that were "exactly the same". I gave up any thought of trying to explain since I knew that he just wouldn't get it...as he climbed onto his Honda twintub.

 

Well, in a way, your buddy is right. They are very close, not that there's anything wrong with that. I think he just doesn't realize that there's riders out there who are closely linked to one particular make or marque. I'd have at least 6 particular models of M.G. , if I had the room.

 

Steve

[Greg Field]

I have an Eldo and a V11. They're pretty damn close, too. I really think I can ride the Eldo faster. Could be fantasy, but I've had people on my V11 gasping trying to keep up to the Eldo. I'm fairly convinced they wouldn't be gasping if they were on a Griso.

[Baldini]

....I have an Eldo and a V11. They're pretty damn close, too. I really think I can ride the Eldo faster. Could be fantasy, but I've had people on my V11 gasping trying to keep up to the Eldo. I'm fairly convinced they wouldn't be gasping if they were on a Griso.

 

I'm never sure what sort of roads or corner speeds we're talking about but I'm surprised Loop frame can come near a V11 on the brakes & at top end. I have same feeling with my Tonti & Scura. Tonti doesn't scare me as much as Scura, esp when it gets bumpy (I'd love to see on bike footage from the Tenni that raced on IOM ). I have more confidence in Tonti at limit than V11 - frame/motor seems tighter/stronger as a unit... but then it's much less powerful. It's also smaller & more manageable & with f/r tyres similar & skinny, more consistent turning. Best thing with the new bikes is rear end - miles ahead of anything Guzzi had before & always (least since Tontis - never ridden a Loop) their biggest hindrance. Griso felt very taught, like a Tonti does, & I imagine it handles very well...given a decent set of bars... .

Anyhow, for me it's academic like any debate about different bikes abilities on road cos the limiting factor is nearly always self preservation: on a twisty road visibility, traffic etc will always slow me down before bike does. Whatever it is, it's usually fast enough .

KB

[belfastguzzi]

Yes, another V.11 and Griso owner.

I thought the 12008V Griso sufficiently different to the V.11 Scura to justify a finance deal.

 

As I've said before in various posts, I pretty much agree with Baldini about the riding position and on-bike-feel of the two machines. For me, the V.11 with clip ons gives a more sympathetic and enjoyable fast riding position.

For me, the suspension is still one of the big differences. On tight, bumpy, bad roads round here, the Ohlins suspension is clearly better than the Grisos. On well surfaced roads, the Griso is probably a better package.

 

A few points to note about the Griso issues...

I have fitted a very small screen. Though small, this gives a noticeable improvement when going faster.

 

I've tried various suspension settings. Just recently wound the pre-load off more. It's all improved with less of everything.

 

I still don't love the wide bars, but I'm getting more used to them. The fact is that it's a big bulky, heavy bike: so no point in changing them. I do think that the extra control/leverage/quick correction of the wide bars (and the long bike) saves the day in a few situations, for example when the front wheel slides out on loose gravel in corners. In situations like that, I've felt that with clip-ons I might have been down.

 

Of course the motor is a belter and generally improved with an open pipe. When the stock exhaust is junked, the mid-range isn't so strangled and there isn't the sharp transition through to high revs. Plus it feels so much better after the loss of weight out the back.

Jerky, low throttle riding is more of a pain. That was the first thing that I noticed when the open pipe was put on. Slow riding / in town riding was shot to pieces compared to the smoothness of the stock exhaust. It's also too eager to stall.

Noise is another factor that has been discussed elsewhere. I certainly prefer the open pipe, but it's worth repeating what I've said before about the stock figure 8 exhaust. Accepting the fact that it is quiet and doesn't allow the raw bark, MG engineers have done a good job with it. The sound is well tuned and nicely balanced. An open pipe gives the grunty shout ok, but the original has a good broad(er) range of notes.

 

Btw Baldini, you rode the bike when it had the OE exhaust on it.

 

Yes there are imperfect things about the bike but I do love riding the 8V G1200. It remains ever engaging, satisfying, rewarding.

If I was buying (a MG) and had to choose, for lots of reasons my choice would be a new 8V Griso rather than a V.11

While I don't have to choose – I'm keeping both.

[guzzi jon]

Like Pete, I had a sweet 02 Lemans 85bhp at the rear wheel, ran perfect. I also have an 07 griso that when dialed in feels faster and gives the perception of handling better.... It makes 10 bhp less than my lemans, but is much more entertaining to ride..... (this is a griso forum isn't it?)

[Orson]

(I'd love to see on bike footage from the Tenni that raced on IOM ).

I was sat at Rhencullen in '02 when the Tenni raced.

 

Watching it go thru the kink looked like it had a hinge in the middle

 

The spectators nearby looked at each other and shook their heads

 

Ol' Ashley whutshisname had his hands full. If I recall correctly (could be wrong) he retired with a broken steering dampener.

[Baldini]

.....Ol' Ashley whutshisname had his hands full. If I recall correctly (could be wrong) he retired with a broken steering dampener.

 

Steering damper would sure have had a workout! Ashley Law - dunno where he came from or where he went - probably never wanted to ride a bike again - can only imagine the horror of trying to hang on to a V11 flat out on closed roads round there, think I read somewhere he was grinding the sump on parts of the course - a real hero!

"hinge in the middle" is just how V11 feels hitting a set of bumps cranked over fast - I don't know much about structural engineering but I think that the short, flimsy s/a & the apparent (IMV) lack of torsional stiffness between the s/a pivot plates & headstock would be first places to look to improve. Some folk used to run a tube between areas of headstock tubes & s/a mount on old boxer BMW's (think it was US shop San Jose supplied these as kit?) - which I think is similar issue to V11/spline frame bikes. Suspect that later addition of tubing between porkchops was an half-arsed attempt at addressing this.

Orson, you're a lucky man to have seen that. I've watched at Rhencullen - it is real scary place.

 

KB

 

PS: Prompted me to look up TT site: Ashley Law is listed as a finisher in 2002 Production1000 TT at average of 97mph. Was going to start a seperate thread about this did a search & there was one before - dunno how to do link but this pic....

[Orson]

PS: Prompted me to look up TT site: Ashley Law is listed as a finisher in 2002 Production1000 TT at average of 97mph. Was going to start a seperate thread about this did a search & there was one before - dunno how to do link but this pic....

Oy! The V11 didn't break the 100 mph barrier?

 

weren't single cylinder Nortons breaking the 100 mph mark?

 

mind you, 97 mph average would be more than enough for me, thank you very much

[Baldini]

Oy! The V11 didn't break the 100 mph barrier?

 

weren't single cylinder Nortons breaking the 100 mph mark?

 

mind you, 97 mph average would be more than enough for me, thank you very much

 

Manx Norton is a dedicated racebike, light weight, balanced the whole thing designed to go fast on the bumpy TT circuit. V11 is a road bike, a huge half thought out porky compromise with it's wt all in the wrong places. It's fat sticky tyres just tie it in knots. Featherbed frame makes a really strong chassis. I dunno power to wt ratios for 500 Manx/V11 but I'm sure someone might? First 100 mph laps, TT had GP status & best riders in the world. In modern times, see Bill Swallow or Bob Heath racing in Classic - they are soo fast, so smooth - or try putting your V11 up on track against a 125 GP bike ! I wouldn't bet against a good road going Featherbed with a decent motor, brakes & tyres running rings round a V11 on any road or track.

 

KB

[Steve G.]

Like Pete, I had a sweet 02 Lemans 85bhp at the rear wheel, ran perfect. I also have an 07 griso that when dialed in feels faster and gives the perception of handling better.... It makes 10 bhp less than my lemans, but is much more entertaining to ride..... (this is a griso forum isn't it?)

 

 

Your perception is correct. The fact is the spine frame V11 series has it's limitations as far as handling sure footedness. You can get used to it, and you can improve it as described by Ratchet. But it still shows it's face in fast sweapers, and bumpy roads. More than one magazine tester has called it's high speed handling "willowy", directly blaming it's frame and weight biases.

I'm used to these characteristics, as I've many thousands of miles on a Norton Commando, lovingly nick-named "bendy", or "bender", their isolastic engine/frame mounting system giving them a characteristic frame settling nature where the swing arm settles into a corner. When you get your head around it with these vintage machines, it works very well in smooth or rough conditions. Perhaps the vintage trim tt/100 Dunlop bias tires soften this situation, whereas the radials on a V11 mean the frame must deal with all the movement, and does so with fine V11 characteristic style!

I would still choose the V11. Ridden the Griso, yes it's tighter, newer, follows direction better. But, again this is personal, I just don't think the Griso series is anywhere close to matching the V11 series in visual appearance. I like two pipes on either side just like the cylinders, I cannot deal with the visual aspect of that oil cooler on the Griso, I don't like the looks of the [yes superior] Griso frame, the V11 is just plain a better looking bike. This may not mean anything to anyone else, but it's very important to me. I'd much rather look at a V7 Sport than say, a Suzuki Madura. Rather look at an Eddie Lawson Replica than say a BMW 1100GS. There are exceptions to every majority common view, but I think in this case, I'm in the majority. And, I'm of strong opinion that motorcycle styling tugs at the string of every one of us here, anyone who says that styling means nothing, that they got their bike because they thought "it does the job best" well, I don't buy it. The Griso is a better bike, but it's not that much better that it would make me ignore it's "polarising" visual appearance. Heck, the 1100 Breva is a better bike than the V11, but it was wacked many times by an ugly stick, so much so, there's tons of them sitting around where I live unsold and at fire sale prices.

 

Steve

[GuzziMoto]

Your perception is correct. The fact is the spine frame V11 series has it's limitations as far as handling sure footedness. You can get used to it, and you can improve it as described by Ratchet. But it still shows it's face in fast sweapers, and bumpy roads. More than one magazine tester has called it's high speed handling "willowy", directly blaming it's frame and weight biases.

I'm used to these characteristics, as I've many thousands of miles on a Norton Commando, lovingly nick-named "bendy", or "bender", their isolastic engine/frame mounting system giving them a characteristic frame settling nature where the swing arm settles into a corner. When you get your head around it with these vintage machines, it works very well in smooth or rough conditions. Perhaps the vintage trim tt/100 Dunlop bias tires soften this situation, whereas the radials on a V11 mean the frame must deal with all the movement, and does so with fine V11 characteristic style!

I would still choose the V11. Ridden the Griso, yes it's tighter, newer, follows direction better. But, again this is personal, I just don't think the Griso series is anywhere close to matching the V11 series in visual appearance. I like two pipes on either side just like the cylinders, I cannot deal with the visual aspect of that oil cooler on the Griso, I don't like the looks of the [yes superior] Griso frame, the V11 is just plain a better looking bike. This may not mean anything to anyone else, but it's very important to me. I'd much rather look at a V7 Sport than say, a Suzuki Madura. Rather look at an Eddie Lawson Replica than say a BMW 1100GS. There are exceptions to every majority common view, but I think in this case, I'm in the majority. And, I'm of strong opinion that motorcycle styling tugs at the string of every one of us here, anyone who says that styling means nothing, that they got their bike because they thought "it does the job best" well, I don't buy it. The Griso is a better bike, but it's not that much better that it would make me ignore it's "polarising" visual appearance. Heck, the 1100 Breva is a better bike than the V11, but it was wacked many times by an ugly stick, so much so, there's tons of them sitting around where I live unsold and at fire sale prices.

 

Steve

 

I have both a Griso and a red frame V11, and once properly setup (the V11 needed dampning in the front forks and a quality shock) the V11 outhandles the Griso hands down. The Griso is easier to ride fast, but can not go as fast. The Grisos frame feels less stiff, not stiffer, to me and does not provide the level of feedback the V11 does. When you see a V11 wobbling or weaving, it is likely due to something not being setup right. You can make a V11 handle poorly but if you set it up right it is still the best handling bike Guzzi has built in my opinion.

Style is a whole nother matter, and while I too love the looks of the V11 I also find the Griso to be beautiful. I prefer it with the pipe exiting on the right (as mine does now) and also prefer the sound of the 2 into 1 system. It has a meaner, less Ducati like tone.

[Baldini]

I was sat at Rhencullen in '02 when the Tenni raced.

Watching it go thru the kink looked like it had a hinge in the middle The spectators nearby looked at each other and shook their heads

Ol' Ashley whutshisname had his hands full. If I recall correctly (could be wrong) he retired with a broken steering dampener.

 

 

...When you see a V11 wobbling or weaving, it is likely due to something not being setup right. You can make a V11 handle poorly but if you set it up right it is still the best handling bike Guzzi has built in my opinion...

 

Guess Ashley Law should've got GuzziMoto to set his Tenni up for him

 

KB

[GuzziMoto]

Guess Ashley Law should've got GuzziMoto to set his Tenni up for him

 

KB

If he had a broken steering dampener, that would explain why his bike was wobbling. A faulty steering dampener can without a doubt make a V11(or likely any other bike) wobble. While I have never run the IOM (and never will, those guys are wack. I was watching it in HD last night and the bikes keep getting faster but the track keeps getting bumpier it seems) I am not a someone who hasn't done things but sits on the sidelines telling people who do actually do things how they should be done. I have ridden my share of bikes around race tracks and done well enough. I make no claims to being the best, but I am far from the worst.

If you disagree with me, fine. I don't really care. Personal preference is a big part of bike handling, I just happen to prefer the sharper edge of the V11 to the softer edge of the Griso.